MLS is Back Tournament [Rs]

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hahahahaha Beckerman enjoy your vacation.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What did you think about the "tackle" at 66' that got Glad a caution?

    It was closer to DOGSO than I think anyone realized (sure, there was a defender in the area of where the attack was going... but did he have a chance of challenging to prevent it from being 1 on 1 with the keeper?).

    And the knee on knee was probably closer to SFP than anyone would care to admit; certainly seemed like it endangered the opponent's safety and a normal SPA foul could have been done a lot less violently.

    Alas, probably just short of either threshold at this level. But it was a garbage challenge.
     
  3. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    a lot of nastiness in that match. At least the referee had a good view of the red card and did the right thing without having to rely on the VAR
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really a fascinating situation when you break it down and think about it.

    Beckerman really didn't blast the ball with a ton of malice, yet he completely and immediately accepted the red. Didn't protest the decision at all (which I'd expect most players to do--even for appearances--if it wasn't a really violent act). And he didn't seem to be protesting anything Fischer had done or was doing (he never protested the VAR handball penalty 2 minutes earlier). It's almost like he did it out of frustration, realized he was guilty, and just accepted the result. Most players who kick the ball at a referee and get a red are probably going to have a few choice words after the red. Here? Nothing. Just accepts it and turns away without another word.

    And on Fischer's end... I fear there are referees in this league that might not have reflexively gone red due to the lack of malice or intensity in the act. But Fischer just calmly went red. His handling of the incident might go largely unnoticed because the decision might seem so obvious, but I think he deserves praise here.

    Strange all-around, but very well handled.
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm checking to figure out if there was anything I'm missing, but as far as I can tell it's definitely for kicking the ball at him, and quite justified. Just so strange.

    Meanwhile...

    1287946368141668355 is not a valid tweet id
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not really a critique, because he's at or near the top of the food chain for both PRO and FIFA options for US referees and he's nothing if not consistent about this, but... I really think an attacker would need to get murdered for Marrufo to give a yellow card alongside a penalty (absent a very clear and textbook DOGSO situation... I'm talking like foul occurring within a 5 yard radius of the penalty spot and no other defender within 10 yards).

    The tackle that led to the penalty for LAFC was the dictionary definition of reckless.
     
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  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Always glad it's not my job to determine whether a goal should be credited to the attacker or as an own goal. Then there's the Sunday league way of dealing with it: "ok who wants it?"
     
  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Something I have been mentioning for years on this forum.

    It obviously has given him great success, but his aversion to giving yellow cards no matter how obvious they may be is quite remarkable.

    I genuinely don't think he gives a red card to Beckerman last night
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't he chastised 5-6 years ago for not giving a red in a playoff game when he got manhandled? "Chastised" is probably the wrong word because I don't know what happened privately, but it was used in instruction thereafter with PRO saying it needed to be red and referees weren't helping themselves when they didn't go red in similar situations.

    I don't know. The Beckerman situation feels like one where the veteran referees, including Marrufo, would go red and the newer referees might be a little more skittish. I could be wrong, though.
     
  10. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Not sure if Beckerman was doing this with malice or not, but you just can't kick the ball at the referee like this. That is a red card without any doubt.
     
  11. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both of Felipe's yellows could have easily been SFP reds.

    Felipe also got a 1-game suspension from the DisCo for the missed one in the Montreal game.
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Felipe’s one against DCU is the clear one I was conceding.
     
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Felipe is DC. Against Montreal.
     
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  14. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair, Felipe did play for Montreal at one point!
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. I'd actually forgotten before this tournament where he'd landed.
     
  16. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The one I remember with Marrufo was early 2010s when Andy Najar threw/kicked the ball at him after a yellow. Went with 2CT but probably should have been VC.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe it was a conf final 2013-15 range. Seattle match if I recall correctly. I don’t think a red was given at all so this isn’t it. But I could be conflating memories.
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely different incidents. I don't recall a playoff red from Marrufo since Najar fwiw.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I think this was "dissent + manhandling" that only got a yellow for dissent.
     
  20. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2012 Eastern Conference semifinal, 1st leg. Was Najar's last action in a United uniform after the 3-game suspension he was given.
     
  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah that's the one I was thinking of, but Mass Ref's thinking of something else as well. I vaguely remember what he's talking about, but even I'm running out of room to store all these incidents in my head....
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I give up. I'm almost certain it was leg 2 of the conf semifinals between Seattle and the Galaxy. But I can't find the incident or mention of it.

    I really think a player grabbed Marrufo by the arm and turned him. Marrufo just stared him down or whatnot and kept running.

    Anyway, a blip in time. Sorry to distract from the current conversation.
     
  23. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was sorting through his playoff games and he gave 2 yellows in that game, one to Marcelo Sarvas for a tactical foul, and one to Jaime Penedo for time wasting (back when MLS's highlight packages online were much more robust). I couldn't find anything else, either.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, the more I think about it I don't think any card was given.

    I know this happened. There was a PRO-branded clip at the subsequent National Camp where they said they felt this was a red card, which surprised me given who the referee was. That's why I remembered it and brought it up here.

    But nailing down the particulars of the incident? Probably little chance of doing that.
     
  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    It was Dempsey.

    Marrufo went over, I think, to card another Seattle player for a foul or something and Dempsey grabbed Marrufo by the shoulder and essentially turned him around.

    Marrufo did nothing.

    I just have a hard time believing that Marrufo would have given a red to Beckerman. Everything points to him not giving it.

    It doesn't really matter. Marrufo's style and approach works and has given him tremendous success so who cares what some keyboard referees think.
     
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