DC United will play in the south american cup against Universidad Catolica (Johny Walker's former team). Is this another disaster waiting to happen (*cough Pumas cough*) or will MLS finally start earning respect on an international club competition level?? With the talk of MLS teams wanting to join Copa Libertadores you know DC United has to at least beat Catolica and not be an embarrasment for the league. I don't know how they would allow MLS into Copa Libertadores if MLS teams can't prove they can play on the road abroad.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? I think the naivite of MLS defenses is what is being exposed in those road losses rather than a lack of mid-season conditioning. On the other hand, I recall that Mercosur didn't go all that badly before-- MLS teams weren't close to qualifying out of the groups, but weren't embarassing like the early season Champions Cup road games. These matches against Catolica will give us information one way or another.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? agreed. which is why i have said that DC United can't shoot their load against Dallas this weekend, and then be tired for the Catolica game. It is imperative for our teams to make a good account of themselves in these international tournaments. I fear that if DC gets blown out, we may not see a US based team invited to Sudamericana next year. A win in the series against Catolica pretty much assures MLS' participation again next year. I hope that Nowak is aware of this and plans accordingly.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Emphatically, NO, it cannot be a disaster. Either our teams are good enough to play at this level, in which case that will show, or they're not, in which case we'll all find that out. I think you're implying that if we were to find out that MLS isn't up to this level of competition, this would be a "disaster", because we'd be getting exposed. I, for one, don't see how finding out where you stand is a bad thing. We need more, not less, of this kind of external exposure. If we find out the bar is higher than we thought, then great, that tells our soccer people -- players, coaches, GMs, league officials, etc -- that there's still a lot of work to do. Otherwise we're just staring at our own navels and telling outselves how good we are. For the record, I don't think we're going to show poorly.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? So you're telling me that DC getting massacred by Pumas was not a disaster?? if that was not a disaster I don't know what is!
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? 1) Pumas and DC played to a 1-1 draw in their 1st match, so it's not like Pumas totally dominated United over the series 2) Those 5-0 scores can often be misleading. If a team falls behind by 2 goals in a game, they'll usually start pressing forward in order to equalize the match, which in turns leaves them vulnerable to counter-attack goals.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? It's really easy to blow that game out of proportion. We beat them here and played an ok first 45 minutes. It was obvious that the altitude was bothering DC and they faded in the second half. All in all they played ok for it being early in the MLS season. I'd rather look at a DC team in midseason form like we played against Chelsea. It's a much better indication.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? People conveniently forget that first leg. yes, the second leg blew, but that wasn't the only time they played. This conversations amuse me because some people think no one will respect us if we don't play these things and some people think if we play them, we're doomed forever because we're not that good. This league has long gotten past the time when one game or moment will make or break the future.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Speaking as someone who has seen almost every international game DCU has played in RFK, I can honestly say I don't consider our performance against Pumas a "disaster". Nor would I consider it one if we get whacked by Catolica. These games good for measuring how our league stacks up worldwide. So far it's safe to say MLS (or at least DCU) is far better than anything Central America has to offer, and not as good as the MFL or any major Euro league. There's no shame in that in a young league like ours. If in the next 10 years we are still getting spanked by Pumas, then I would worry, but for now these tournaments are just measuring sticks for our (hopefully) continued progress. Having said all that, we are going to beat Catolica 2-1 at home and then put 11 men in goal and hang on for 0-0 draw and advance.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Then why can't we beat Costa Rica teams in a home and home?
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? the true 'disaster' was having 5 games over 9 days whilst still in preseason form, and Nowaks decision to start a rookie, Van Sicklen, on the same side as Stokes. Esky hit the post early on. That goes in, and we have a completely different game. Of course it didn't go in, so... Also, it was 2-0 Pumas before Petkes beyond foolish red card. Not to make excuses for a piss-poor performance by United, but thems the facts.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? You mean the same Universidad Catolica that RSL beat in a friendly 3-2? Sure, it was at altitude, on field turf, but our SUBS won the game in the second half...
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? i think this is a good chance for DC to advance, facing teams like the "U" will never be easy but the Chilean league as a whole is not at its strongest point..
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? don't mistake a meaningless friendly with a cup tournament. MLS teams are known to play well against international competition at home but on the road they are exposed. All I am asking is are we going to see another disaster like the game against Pumas? or will we finally have an MLS team assert themselves in a home/away series against a decent foreign team in an international tournament?
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? What is with this persistent need for MLS teams to prove themselves in international competition? If by playing in this cup weakens DC United so much that they end up missing the MLS Cup, I say skip it. Hey let's merge threads here. Because MLS has a competitive playoff system, there is less incentive for MLS teams to prove themselves in international tourneys. After all, it was only because L'pool was out of the EPL cup race so early last season that they could focus on the Champions League.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Well, not really, Liverpool had a chance for 4th until the last couple weeks, that was worth fighting for. They couldn't plan on winning it and then UEFA making an exception for them. Can we wait to call this a disaster until D.C. United actually, you know, lose?
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Usually because the MLS team wins at home, and comes apart on the road. I dont know who DC started in the back on the road leg against Pumas, but there backline will have looked different then it does now for certain. San Jose went out the last couple of times doing pretty much just that. KC was actually up 1-0 in their road leg this year, and just blew it at the end. The fact that most of these games have happened pre season, and that MLS clubs have treated them more like tune ups hasnt helped. It will be interesting to see how DC does. Im a little worried, because I can see more than most teams them having tired legs at this stage.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Well for starters because the Costa Rican league is unbalanced like most leagues. In 2003/2004, Sparissa played 44 games and racked up 104 points. The point being the talent in MLS is spread out between 10 teams, the talent in Costa Rica is concentrated in roughly about 3 teams. As a thought experiment, I picked out who are roughly the top three players at each position in MLS (6 players at center back and forward). I then randomly selected one of the top three at each position to come up with a lineup like: GK - Kevin Hartman LB - Todd Dunivant CB - Eddie Robinson CB - Nick Garcia RB - Bryan Namoff LM - Justin Mapp DM - Pablo Mastroeni AM - Christian Gomez RM - Steve Ralston CF - Landon Donovan CF - Eddie Johnson Most leagues have top teams for whom the top talent is concentrated like this. Think about Man Utd and try and come up with a player in their starting lineup who is not one of the top 3 (or 6) in the Premier League. Maybe one or two tops. And that's a 20 team league. Now if these players played together week in and week out, they'd be a hell of a lot better team than MLS has ever seen and would be much stronger positioned to compete in these sorts of things. An MLS team trying to deal with the foursome of Gomez, Mapp, Donovan and Johnson would really be in a tough spot. So the question would be, would it be worth it to sacrifice MLS' traditional parity in order to have a stronger team internationally? I'm sure different people would have different answers to that.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? We started Boswell, Stokes, and Petke for the 2nd leg against Pumas. And remember this .......... Boswell was starting in the 4th professional game of his career at the time (Chivas/Pumas/Chicago/Pumas). He was essentially a different player. Hell, Nick Van Sicklen was starting in that game (the 2nd start of his professional career as a 1st teamer), and he hasn't played one minute of first team action with DCU since.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? The DC should have a good game, I dont consider a loss against pumas so early in the season to be significative, the team now has a lot more cohesion, plus the more energetic style of play of the MLS could throw off balance some middle chart south american teams, the real proof should come in the quarter finals, when you face the real monsters, Rosario Central, Corinthians, etc. I say the DC United win this one.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Rosario Central is a monster team?!?!? Tee-hee. The only monsters they might face are the kidnappers and assassins on their way to play Atletico Nacional at the Atanasio Girardot in Medellin. Now THAT will be scary. I hope DC doesn't get that far because Colombians (perhaps rightly so) absolutely loathe the US and Americans and will probably use these guys as target practice. I would forfeit the match before going there. Seriously. If the President couldn't keep his own inauguration in Bogota safe from mortar rounds, he won't be able to keep some poor American (and Argentine, and Bolivian) soccer players safe from the FARC.
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? WHATS good for mexico is even better for us... Mexico is now a yearly participator in Libertadores and now sudamericana US Soccer should be there too.... I think MLS should be apart of these events... its a 50 50 thing yes there can be the back lash of being beaten up on but there s also the flip side and show we do belong and how soccer has come a long way in this country... If you win a concacrap cup no one cares but Conmebol is a whole different story automaticly it means prestigue and respect.... Why fear the disaster if you dont exist you can only move up in the world...think about it all these young kids being exposed to hostil enviornments and quality INTERNATIONAL EVENTS AND TEAMS it only makes you better... you can only learn from this... do you think venezuela thinks these events are a disaster????? not at all.... MLS is taking steps the NASL had no clue about.... MLS should want to take part in the only equal to the champions league....i rather pay 30 bucks to see my team play in a international affair for a real cup than pay 30 bucks for a meaningless friendly match vs some vacationing clowns from europe........ WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF FOOTBALL welcome to conmebol and I hope MLS makes it count... what would you rather see your MLS team lift the worthless concacaf champions cup over a team from T&T or lift the copa libertadores... I for one aplaud MLS for taking this invite and wanting to be apart of the CONMEBOL family.....this will make you stronger and as time goes by and teams get better US SOCCER as a whole gets better... now the mexicans will have no where to hide we already sent them packing in World Cup 2002 a few concacaf cups and now in conmebol events...
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Don't forget that MLS has won the CCC twice already.. Considering the league is only ten years old that's really not bad at all don't you think? Some setbacks are to be expected but we shouldn't shy away from international competition even though we will get a few "spankings" as the league grows and hopefully learns from the experiences, good and bad..
Re: MLS in south american cup: Disaster??? Well, I'll give you your pick: 1. A forty-year-old civil war which, in the last 25 years, has been about Colombia fueling the US's coke habit and tens of thousands of Colombians dying, directly or indirectly, as a result. 2. Plan Colombia--the not-so-secret war against the FARC using American "advisors" to assist Colombian special forces in raids. Old-style Yanqui stuff not too popular down that-a-way. 3. The poisoning of many legitimate crops in Colombia's fields by industrial strength Roundup aimed at the coca fields dropped by American snazzed-up crop dusters. Also, by the way, poisoning the people in the villages underneath. 4. The whole Andres Escobar murder/US World Cup '94 own goal/Medellin thing. He was from Medellin and killed there, I believe, even played for Atletico Nacional, I think. Makes no sense to me, but some people still hate the US for that game because of what the outcome was for Andres. 5. The fact that DC represents the nation's capital and would be a far more symbolic target than, say, Real Salt Lake. Just giving my opinion, I'm not Colombian, I have some friends who are and I've heard that things down there are awfully rough and that Americans are NOT welcome. But maybe I'm wrong and some Colombians can come on here and sort it out and tell me that DC would be perfectly safe down there.