I saw a piece on SoccerCentral about Toronto being the leading candidate for a MLS expansion team, according to the MLS chairman. I was just wondering what impact this might have on Canadian soccer, and how it might aid the development of Canadian players
I think it's geat. Maybe their soccer specific stadium will be filled every week. And it being the only big canadain club would mean the best canadians in the country would play for that club. And it would be a great club to retire with, with all those canadians making way overseas. I think a canadian club has it's advantages. Hey, maybe it'll finally lead to a successful league. Btw, aren't 400,000 of the 800,000 registered soccer players in c anada live in and around toronto?
aren't onstad and derosario SIs right now? would MLS have to make allowances for a toronto team, or change the international player system so that canadians wouldnt count againt international slots? (and would chivas take that quietly?) would a toronto club get into the open cup? it would be great if it happened, but sad if the rules stayed the same and the team could only have, barring green card holders, 9 canadian players (4 senior and 5 transitional, iirc).
I don't think MLS in Canada is going to happen. The last thing I read was in the Toronto Star last month about how the main guy pushing for an MLS team (I forgot what his name is) didn't even know about the $10 million expansion fee and was feeling lukewarm about the idea after that. I think there's talk about it, but that's about it.
First and foremost I'll repeat again both Vancouver and Montreal have shown over the last 30 years that they support soccer more than Toronto, that stat includes NASL, CSL, and A-League . Throw out the number of registered soccer players in and around Toronto because the past shows that means absolutely nothing. Secondly, their new stadium is not a soccer specific stadium, it will be built primarily for the CFL Toronto Argonauts, with soccer as a secondary tenant. Lastly, why on earth would Canadas best players (presently playing in Europe and elsewhere) come back to play in the MLS? What would be the incentive? The lower pay, the longer travel to games that playing in a North American league entails or less exposure? By the way, here's some shots of Canadian city that has always been one of the highest draws in Whatever league they have played in. http://newheads.tripod.com/swangardsouth/id12.html
Your historical points are right on. However, I believe that if marketed correctly, the "North American premier league" argument may sell well in Toronto, especially if they are looked at as a team above (and I agree that that may be somewhat artificial) what the rest of Canada has. Secondly, their new stadium is not a soccer specific stadium, it will be built primarily for the CFL Toronto Argonauts, with soccer as a secondary tenant. [/QUOTE] Lastly, why on earth would Canadas best players (presently playing in Europe and elsewhere) come back to play in the MLS? What would be the incentive? The lower pay, the longer travel to games that playing in a North American league entails or less exposure?[/QUOTE]
Everyone always waltzes by and ignores the biggest reasons why no Canadian team to MLS. No freaking investors who can hack it! Same is true for the Rochester dream. He doesn't have the cash and he is making money......why take the hit? Because we want him to for the good of US Soccer? Please. Dream. When MLS is near break even (7,8,9 years?) then DuRoss will want to join. By then he will be too small for MLS. Welcome Club America...get used to it. Sooner rather than later. The other exp team? Toss up, but not Rochester. I'll take that bet if anyone wants it. Called Economics 101.
Sorry about the prior post, unknowing hairtrigger while composing Your points are right on. However, I believe that if marketed correctly, the "North American premier league" argument may sell well in Toronto, especially if they are looked at as a team above (and I agree that that may be somewhat artificial) what the rest of Canada has. The potential is so much greater in Toronto than in Montreal (Expos) or Vancouver (Grizzlies), especially given how much incomparably bigger and richer southern Ontario is compared to the lower St. Lawrence or the Lower mainland of BC. We don't know, but if the Argo group or some other rich franchisee is willing to take a risk, why not? True, but it will be the closest thing to a SSS that Canada will have though, as there will be no track, and the agreement apparently is that the football gridiron lines will not be permanently imprinted on any fieldturf (if that is what they end up getting). If the Argo group gets an MLS franchise, you can guarantee that it will be an equal tenant to the Argos with that investment. Again, excellent point. They won't come back as long as they are still or about to be highly marketable in the EPL, Coca-Cola Championship or Bundesliga, yes, but a MLS team in Canada could provide (even if just incrementally) further opportunity for Canadian players on their way to Europe, in the lower divisions in Europe, who have graduated from US colleges (too old for the most part to make it in Europe and not good enough to crack the American MLS club's foreign quotas) or players who have finished in Europe who want to end their careers here (many who would still be good enough for our MNT). So far, the MLS money is not that great, but should be significantly higher than the A-league. In addition, there are indications that the regulations concerning non-EU players in Europe (as indicated, for instance, by the German association recently), as well as the availabity of EU passports for those trying to get them solely through parentage, will be necessarily getting harder as the EU expands. We need more alternatives to Europe as time goes by. I disagree with the CSA statements that a Canadian MLS team is the panacea to our country's MNT problems, but it would be a small but significant help, and is not going to hurt the non-existent chances of a national league here. It will hurt the Lynx obviously, but should not really hurt the lustre of the Impact or the Whitecaps, and there is no indication that the attendences will be hurt by a Toronto MLS. You and your buddies ain't going to stay away from Swangard because of a Toronto MLS team. If anything, local support for soccer should grow in reaction to big bad Toronto getting a "status" team. If some outfit with the ready bucks wants to take the risk on the MLS, why not? That money would not otherwise be going to soccer anyway. Overall, we certainly have nothing real to lose.
[/QUOTE] I still don't buy it. The soccer snobs in Ontario will still be soccer snobs, sticking up their noses at anything that isn't a Euro league. NASL was North American premier league when it was around yet most seasons whichever team was representing Toronto was hard pressed to reach 10,000 per game.
..you may be right. And, I should hasten to add (and I'm not saying you said this KH, I know you are referring to those guys that suddenly turned up at the Skydome at the end of July to see the G14 exhibiton pseudo-matches), not all our soccer fan brothers in Southern Ontario are soccer snobs as you know. Many here, and most who show up for the Lynx matches and the CPSL matches, are true devotees and supporters of Canadian soccer. A successful MLS team, if it is successful, would have to depend on a far more expansive fan base.
We've been kicking this one a lot already. Here and on the Canadian Voyaguers message boards. So far, several of the usual suspects except for Doyle G saying that the whole idea sucks and has no merit at all. I'm pretty tired of this one. I want to see Canadian football thrive. If that means and MLS Team in TO, Montreal or Vancouver then great. If it doesn't work out, then life will not end either. Canadians are incredibly resourceful, they will find a way to continue on. And losing a franchise, while a step back for MLS, will not be a death sentence either. Whoever tries to buy in up North will need a lot of loonies and toonies, that much I can tell you for sure.
I agree if MLS was to come to Canada go to Montreal or Vancouver, these cities have proven that they can get attendance. All Toronto needs to do is advertise the Lynx a bit more to get the huge euro/african/asian/latino population informed that there is soccer in toronto and hope that they follow it.
The Lynx usually have a Caribbean night and other similar themed nights. As far as I can tell it doesn't bring out huge crowds, they are relatively the same game in and game out, and the fans that do show up just for the theme night do not come back for future games. Perhaps these days aren't advertised as good as they should, but thats probably due to the Lynx owners not having deep pockets. If they do get those ethnic fans to come out to games I wonder what they think with all the cheerleaders, music playing over the loudspeakers while the game is being played, and the shenanigans of mascots throwing gifts into the crowd etc. A person who follows soccer in parts of the world where it's taken more seriously might me turned off. I know that I wouldn't return to watch soccer where Britney Spears and other rubbish music is played constantly during the games.
Much of a fan of what? Britney Spears no. Soccer-yes. I am lucky that the club I follow, the Vancouver Whitecaps, do not play music over the loudspeakers during the games. Over the last 5 years I have missed perhaps 5 total games. However if they started in with the gimmicky crap of music over speakers I would stop going. The Whitecaps know this, I've been invited to meet with the club the last two years to give them my input and have let it be known. Also us southsiders let it be known how we feel about crap over the loadspeakers when a couple of years ago they installed huge ones in our endzone and was blaring announcements and music before games and at halftime. We unplugged them. After a few games they removed the speakers never to be seen again.
Re: Sorry about the prior post, unknowing hairtrigger while composing MLS can't provde the alternative that Canadians need. Canada would ever afford only one MLS franchise and the price would be far too much for Canadian soccer to stand. Canada has plently to lose with MLS. The Lynx, Whitecaps, and Impact will be destroyed thanks to MLS turning their clubs into an inferior level. Try and maintain support for a team anywhere in Canada with that kind of a label attached to it. It's been proven in Basketball and Baseball and it will happen in soccer. Most of us won't be there to pick up the pieces when everything falls apart.
Re: Sorry about the prior post, unknowing hairtrigger while composing The Lynx would certainly be destroyed. However I can can honestly say the Whitecaps would survive. There is a constant core of 4000+ Whitecaps fans. They buy the merchandise and go to games and they are quite aware at the level and status of the team. I hardly think any of the regular core of fans would stop attending due to the fact that one team in Canada would be playing at a higher level. The fans that attend the Whitecaps games are not soccer snobs, the soccer snobs already stay home. I think the Impact would be fine as well. They have marketed their games as the "place to be."
The new stadium is a joint venture between Argos and Canadian Soccer Association. Argos will use it 9 times a year. WIll not practice there. It will become the home of the National team Men and Women and will be the Host Site for the 2007 U-19 World cup.
Sure, if you want to believe such things. While the Argos may only play there 11 times a year (with a pre-season and a possible playoff game) thats still a greater number of games than the national teams will play there. How many friendlies does Canada play at home each year? Not a hell of a lot. They may say it's going to be a joint venture and you may believe what they say, but in the end they are jut saying what people want to hear to get the stadium built. The Argos averged over 24,000 fans a game last season, I don't see soccer in Toronto averaging the same. Just wait and see who gets primary and secondary status at the stadium. Also don't forget it will be York U's stadium as well. The CSA has no money and no clout. Do you really think they'll have any say in the matter once the stadium is built?
The MLS would be a great thing for Toronto and with luck Montreal and then Vancouver. Toronto has been missing out on pro soccer since the NASL's Blizzard ceased operations and the quicker a team comes back the better.
WTF? Toronto has been missing out on pro soccer since the NASL Blizzard? If the Lynx aren't pro then Vancouver and Montreal have also been missing out on pro soccer since the NASL. Also once again question the order in which Canadian teams would get an MLS franchise. It's in reverse order of the support the NASL teams got. Vancouver got the most support, Montreal second, and Toronto was a distant last.
Primary secondary staus is just so much ********. There are there are a minimum of 90 dates Fri Sat Sun during the MLS Season argos will max use 11 of them. that leaves 79 Fri Sat Sun open for the secondary tenent. How does that prove a problem. As of now there are two potential owners being bandied about, one are the owners of the Argos the others are the owners of the Leafs.
Lynx is not pro Soccer, its semi pro and the people who run them have no money to market properly. They do nothing to get people in the stadium. The Stadium they play in is a joke.They do no marketing at minor soccer level. The stadium is 30+ years old and has had virtually nothing done to it since the day it was built. Given a proper stadium and owner Toronto will do very well in MLS.