Please go read how MLS headquarters has issued Pablo Mastroeni a yellow even though the ref never showed one during the game. The result is 3 consecutive game yellows (the middle game by MLS HQ) and a suspension (as well as a likely suspension shortly after returning since he's at 21 points thanks to MLS HQ). Only in MLS!!! https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=3900&pagenumber=2
I hope like hell CyberSoccerNews.com or some other journalist makes MLS look completely foolish for this pathetic bullshvte!!!
They've been doing this all season, most notably by "upgrading" yellows to red. It's an open question as to whether or not this undermines the referee's authority, but the Fire have already had at least two instances where they should have, according to the Disciplinary Committee, been up a man in the match, but weren't. I don't recall the results of those matches and how they would have affected our record if we lost points on them. Later, COZ
Preki was suspended for our last game in Dallas in this fashion. He got a double yellow with someone in the Metros game at KC. Next thing you know, just before the Dallas game we hear that he isnt making the trip cause he's been suspended for "violent behavior" or something to that effect. Its sad that they can go and assess more punishment, but at times when a ref obviously gives too much punishment on the field (bad red cards) the league will cut the fine but not cut the suspension. (Happened to Meola at SJ)
I'm not sure what happened to Pablo, but there is a procedure where the officials can punish misconduct that occurs after the conclusion of the match. The referee cannot show a card after the match has ended, he can, however, write in the game report any misconduct or dissent that would have earned a caution. After the match, you'll notice the officials gathering together on the field. This is considered their secure area. Players are not allowed to go to this area to protest to the referee team. Now this comes right from the MLS GMs. They do not want the players running to the referee to complain at all. They feel that it devalues their product. I heard this straight from an MLS referee. Anyway, each team is supplied a copy of this report at the conclusion of the match. The referee will detail the incident and what the "card" would have been for. The league then issues the points based on this report. In addition, any member of the officiating team, the ARs or the 4th could file a report for something the referee did not hear or see during or after the match. This could also lead to punishment. So, if the caution points were awarded for dissent, after the fact, it had to be the result of something that happened after the match or was otherwise listed on the game report. Otherwise, there's no way for the committee to issue points because how would they know what was said. Unless, it looked bad on TV. If that's the case, then the ref team was surely told that a caution or two should have been issued. Can someone provide more details about the incident?
There was a penalty awarded to the Revs (who were down 1-0) early in the second half. The play was a corner kick. The ball traveled into the box, a couple of players jumped to head the ball and missed, and the ball hit someone (Harte, I think) directly in the forearm. I don't know if this affected the ref's thinking, but one of the Rapids blocked a Rev shot in the box (standing in front of the shooter with his arm away from his body) near the end of the first half. After the penalty was awarded, a few of the Rapids argued for an extended period of time, with Pablo being the main "dissenter". The ref probably should have given him a card at the time. There must have been some dispute, because after a while the linesman came to the edge of the box to discuss something with the ref, but the ball traveled at least 40 yards in the air before hitting the player. I don't think that it's unheard of in European leagues for players to be punished after the games for fouls that occur during the game. A notable case of this (although the circumstances were different) was either FIgo or Raul almost getting a 2-game CL suspension for a deliberate handball. Also, didn't the MLS take away a suspension from a player in the Miami-SJ series last year? Reviewing referee decisions isn't a new thing, and it's probably a necessity with the level of refereeing we see in the MLS.
If I understand the situation correctly, the worst part about this is the "post-yellow" comes for the 2nd game in a 3 game sequence, hence the automatic DQ for the next game. But that's completely unfair. If Pablo had known he had 2 consecutive yellows he might have acted differently in the 3rd game to avoid the DQ. But without knowing about the MLS HQ decision, he just went about his business. At minimum, MLS should waive the 3 consecutive yellow punishment in this case. Just ignore me if I'm not understanding the situation correctly.
That goes on the assumption that he didn't know about the second card until after he got the third, which is possible since the second one came on a Wednesday game. I'd like to see them modify the 21 point (or whatever the threshold is) system so that old points "expire" after a while, even if it's 20 games. It seems like too many players miss games late in the season for exceeding the total when some of the cards were from months ago.
Thanks Tim, As a referee, I'd have a hard time with a disiplinary committee awarding a caution that I didn't after the fact. In a controversial situation, I tend to let players get a little more off their chest than I might otherwise. However, that's the way MLS works. The league GMs really want dissent out of their game, so that's the way it is I guess. Yes, last year Serna had a red card recinded during the playoffs. There was miscommunication between the 4th Official and the CR that resulted in Serna getting a red card. After the match, the ref team submitted a report about the miscommunication and that led to his card being switched to a caution. The 4th pointed out something that happened behind the referee, the referee pulled a red thinking that's what the 4th wanted, but the 4th wanted a yellow. It wasn't until after the match that they realized what happened, so the team put this mistake into the report and the league recinded the red to Serna and issued the caution points he should have gotten instead. I think you're right about the CL incident as well. Did that happen against Leeds?
BINGO! Game 2 was a Wednesday, Game 3 was three days later on Saturday. No decision was made about the retroactive Game 2 yellow until the following week after game 3 had been played. This is horseshvte!!!
Hey, billf, that's the funniest "explanation" for Serna's sending off that I can imagine. The truth is that the ref sent him off because he made a mistake and the crowd was baying for blood. Only when the tv shown that Serna did nothing except get kicked, did this fabrication come around due to the refs not wanting to admit to a mistake. It is inconceivable that this 4th official didn't realize until after the match that Serna was sent off, when he only wanted a cuation. What he didn't notice Serna walking off and the crowd going crazy? If not, then I doubt that he was capabale of noticing much else on the pitch, either. The refs should have just admitted to a mistake. We all make them. It is just embarrassing to read things like this.
I think that was Manny Lagos, his suspension was going to be served during a regular season game but once the last ~2 weeks of the season were cancelled after 9/11, the next game became the first playoff game. The league decided cancelling the remaining regular season games had the effect of increasing the severity of the suspension (SJ already had clinched a playoff berth so the remaining regular season games had little importance), so they postponed the suspension to the first game of the following regular season.
Huh, I guess I'll be a dissenting voice here, but I don't have a problem with the league disciplining players retroactively for on-field conduct. Constantly arguing calls and a failure to respect game officials are a blight on the game, and becoming all too common in MLS. [And that includes DC United...how come people only seem to complain when this happens to the teams they support] And I don't care if the ref is missing every damn call, you shut the hell up and be a professional about it.
I completely agree with Uniteo. If a player gets a card later on for doing something he knows is against the rules I don't feel sorry for him at all. Maybe next time he won't argue and just let the play go on. this is my biggest gripe about soccer, the constant questioning of calls. I can understand a moment of frustration but to get in the ref's face deserves a card.
If you read the explaination on the MLS website, then you would have read that the fourth brought something to the center's attention, and the center thought the fourth was asking for a send off. That's why the referee pulled a red. After the red was out the 4th couldn't do anything. He thought the referee was upgrading to a red based on what the referee saw. If I remember correctly, Serna was baiting the SJ player. That's certainly worthy of the caution the fourth official wanted for Serna. Both players were on the ground, so perhaps the referee thought he saw something out of the corner of his eye and pulled the red too quickly based on what he heard and the 4th getting his attention. Mistakes do happen, the officials realized this, and submitted the report without watching the game on video. That's why the mistake was corrected. I can guarentee you that the match officials suffered some cosequenses via their assessment at this match. Of course the fourth knew Serna was sent off. He's responsible for noting this stuff on a report. The miscommunication was over what color the card should have been. The referee team admitted the mistake, but couldn't do anything until the match was over. If you've ever met an MLS referee, you'd know that they take mistakes seriously and do all that they can to share them with other referees so that they don't happen again.
A few years ago the Revs played the Fire in the playoffs. Mauricio Wright got yellow cards in the first two games, which I heard would result in a suspension for game 3. Wright played in game 3. On one of the yellows, Wright was involved with a collision with either Nowak or Rasov, but the replays clearly showed that Wright was the one that got kicked in the leg. I would assume that the league rescinded that yellow.
You heard wrong. The rules for the playoffs are basically the same os for the regular season except that the slate is wiped clean. Wright got two yellows thus earning himself 6-8 points. It takes 11 points to earn a suspension. Thus he was clear to play in game number three, and he did.
I sent the following to MLS and thought I'd post it here: ----------Message---------- 1) Players that cause game delays by arguing with the referree have no sympathy with me. They should be yellow and/or red carded for their actions at the judgement of the ref. In addition, I am fully supportive of fines for these actions following the match. 2) The actions following a PK call or red ejection by players arguing with the ref are part of the game. It's like a baseball manager coming out and screaming at an umpire. It is simply human nature (at least in the US) to beg and plead your case when you're caught doing something you knew you shouldn't have done. You do it when an officer pulls you over for speeding, you do it when you get a red card, and you do it when the ref calls a penalty as a result of your actions. Fans in the stadium also have some steam to let off. It's completely rediculous to expect that there be no delay during a heated closely fought match when a game altering decision is made on the field. I do however, feel that the delay can get excessive and warrant cards (touching the ref at all, causing an unsafe environment for the referrees through threats or violence, etc). And in these cases, the ref should start issuing reds or terminate the match and exit the pitch (if it's a safety issue). But the referree should NEVER be immune to the reaction of players, coaches and fans for his/her actions. It's like our court system. You're judged by a jury of peers in public (not like the 1970s Soviet Police where you're trial is private and you'll never be seen again). If that means the ref sometimes has second thoughts, that's how it should be (what I call home field advantage). 3) A headquarters review board should NEVER be able to issue retroactive yellow or red cards. It makes a mokery of the card system and referreeing. And a ref should never have the power to issue a yellow/red in private. It must be done in full view of the players and public. Based on your current system, it's possible for a players to effectively continue playing while having already completed actions that will eventually result in a retroactive red card. Based on your system, a player may begin playing a match thinking he's not at risk of being suspended if he receives a yellow during the current match when in fact he is at risk. Based on your system, the ref who has lost control of a match begins keeping a personal list of players to receive cards retroactively (I'm an R2/grade 8 USSF ref by the way). If you want to fine after the fact, GREAT! But you must kill these powers to retroactively issue cards immediately. 4) The actions you've taken say one thing to me (and possibly to many other knowledgable soccer fans): you've lost respect for the referree to the point that you don't believe the refs can change for the better. When Pablo Mastroeni didn't receive a yellow in game 2 at New England and did receive a yellow from Hall in Denver for game 3, it was a problem of inconsistency with the referreeing. Alex Prus should be much quicker to issue a yellow (BEFORE there is a gang of players surrounding him) just like Brian Hall did a few days later. If the gang that surrounds him is too quick to avoid, let them get their steam out of their system like Prus did, and then after they've walked away hold the yellow up for all to see and point at the players. Fans in the stands deserve to know when a players actions have crossed the line to learn what is right and wrong. How do you think little Billy Doe at Foxboro on July 24th felt when he saw 3-5 players ganging up on Alex Prus and never see the yellow card? Do you think little Billy will learn that they retroactively received yellow cards when this is one of four games his parents will take him to all season (and a horrible media that will never inform the public of these actions)? Billy learned that yelling at the referree is COMPLETELY acceptable in MLS from that match (and he might even try it on the rec fields a week or two later). This is the WRONG WAY to deal with these incidents. I've said my peace and don't expect a response. I simply hope you will rethink the policies enacted to issue retroactive cards. I have no problem with cracking down hard on dissent both with cards issued and fines by MLS. Just do it openly and publicly so the fans of your sport can follow the game.
Agreed. No referee is going to get every call just right, and the league should be able to correct any inconsistancies it can. Doesn't this happen in at least every American pro league? I'm thinking specifically about fights and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure they could all do it for other things too.