MLS Flavors of the week 2023 edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 24, 2022.

  1. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I also questioned why he took AM off - why take off a guy who can dispossess and lead a transition, but it worked out well for cbus. When I thought about it more, it made sense in that Cincy would be ceding possession and packing it in. Which means that AM isn't seen as a middie who can break down a defense. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for bringing him in against a concacaf opponent.
     
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  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wilfried Nancy as well as far as MLS coaching prospects for the future.

    Though I think there’s a decent shot both Cherundolo and Nancy are gone to Europe by the time we have an opening for coach again.
     
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  3. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5628 tefftlon, Dec 4, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2023
    IDK man... I think that story was kinda whack...

    Schulte and Celentano were both huge in the game.
     
  4. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IDK what credit US/MLS can take for Nancy but that man is going places. Such a great coach.

    The way he talks and gets his team to play give Bielsa vibes (NOT SAYING HE IS AS GOOD). He has his principles for how his team should play and they'll play that way regardless of how the games go.

    Not to mention how much players improve under him. Like half his starters would have been unwanted by other teams in preseason. Morris and Schulte have benefited so much.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I wish Columbus had a better academy to promote more young, homegrown Americans. They're the type of club that should, based on their spending, but they don't have the recruiting base of other clubs. Now they also have competition in Ohio.

    [Schulte isn't a homegrown. He was a GenAd draft pick. But whatever. Same difference.]

    We do have a nice U23 competition between Slonina, Brady, and Schulte. Pulskamp coming along. With Celentano only a few months too old for that Olympic team. So that's like an artificial age distinction.

    Its still shocking to me that we had that tweet from a so-called "expert" with his top 20 keepers under 24 a few months ago...................and Schulte was down at like 19.

    If there's one thing even experts seem to get wrong, its projecting goalkeepers. I was looking at this website with their list of top 100 goalkeepers. This is from March.
    Everybody Soccer, Even the Goalkeepers Like to — Everybody Soccer

    1. Matt Turner, 28 - Arsenal (England.1)
    2. Ethan Horvath, 27 - Nottingham Forest (England.2)
    3. Josh Cohen, 30 - Maccabi Haifa (Israel.1)
    4. Zack Steffen, 28 - Manchester City (England.2) #
    5. Drake Callender, 25 - Inter Miami
    6. Kyle Morton, 29 - Louisville City FC
    7. William Yarbrough, 34 - Colorado Rapids
    8. Tyler Miller, 30 - DC United
    9. Stefan Cleveland, 28 - Seattle Sounders
    10. Brad Stuver, 32 - Austin FC

    This person picked Kyle Morton and Stefan Cleveland in their top 10 over Celentano and others. Kyle Morton played one USL game in the 2023 season and was just released.

    There's no ranking opportunity that makes people look worse than trying to project goalkeepers.

    THis person had Celentano at #47 and Patrick Schulte at #51 amongst USMNT-eligible keepers.

    Now this was before the 2023 MLS season. But still...........................
     
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  6. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    Nancy is truly an incredible coach. Crew's roster isn't all that good relative to other MLS playoff teams, though Cucho is amazing. He's just got them doing exactly what they need to do. He has every one of his players playing fully within their strengths. He's taken castoffs like Amundsen and turned them into top level starters.

    Taking out Morris was interesting but effective. When Morris and Nagbe are both on the field you essentially have two very possession focused midfielders who don't take a ton of risks. Works to control the pitch for the most part, but Columbus really struggled to get numbers in the box against a decent Cincinnati low block. Adding a forward was a risk, gambling some of that pitch control to add a big target.

    Cincinnati lost the momentum after that and when they needed to take control of the game, they couldn't. I don't like sitting back so extremely for that reason, it seems to hard to shift gears when you really need to. If Boupendza could figure out the offside rule it wouldn't have come to that. He did not impress me for a DP signing. I don't think Miazga missing mattered that much.

    I thought Morris was less effective this game than prior playoff games, because the game was so much less open. He and Nagbe would circulate quickly from deep in the final third, but neither really did much to destabilize Cincinnati. He had a ton of touches but when it comes to unlocking that's just not his game.

    Cherundolo has done well to get back into the MLS Cup final with an worse team than last season, but he's still got the best match winner in MLS in Bouanga. The matchup between Bouanga and the right side of the Crew defense is going to be key. Nancy loves to get Farsi and Moreira forward, but how can you do that when a single slip up can be a goal going the other way?
     
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  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Nancy will get a shot in Europe at some point. I just hope it’s with a club where he can implement his style of play and not be punished for it. I’m thinking of what has happened with Kompany at Burnley as an example. Burnley just doesn’t have the talent level to play Man City ball in the Premier League. I’d be worried that Nancy would face a similar challenge in one of the top leagues. I hate to keep going back to my standard Euro answer, but I’d think a solid team in the Eredivisie would be a place where he’d have a good shot to build his style of play.

    Given Cherundolo’s pedigree in Germany, I’d imagine Bundesliga teams already have him on their lists.
     
  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That one person being functionally mentally challenged when it comes to ranking keepers/USMNT doesn't define the base as such.

    But in general much of the fan base has this defect towards the pool as a whole. They list everyone abroad they can, then look for even USL guys due to their irrational aversion to MLS.
     
  9. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You keep pushing this narrative even though Columbus scored more goals than anyone in MLS. It's obviously not a problem with their potency. Just goes to show, over a tiny sample, they can win in different ways under Nancy. They have depth of good players, he builds a structure toward the back and middle, but seems to allow them to play with freedom in the final 3rd.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Keeping just seems like its all about opportunity.
    Finding the right opportunity.

    So you can think CJ dos Santos of Inter Miami or Chituru Odunze of Charlotte or Antonio Carrera of FCD are better keepers than Patrick Schulte. They just don't have the opportunity to show their stuff on the same level.

    As far as Columbus goes, they finished 3rd in the East. They scored 10 more goals than the more-fancied Cincinnati. While it was an upset for Columbus to win that game................it wasn't that much of an upset.

    Aidan Morris. Do we still not know what happened at the Gold Cup? I guess its none of our business. He left the Gold Cup and hasn't been back with the USMNT since. Let's hope he's part of this competition behind Adams for the #6 position (the oft-injured Adams).
     
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remarkable coaching job by Dolo this season. It is very rare that you see a squad make 2 major transformations in one season and succeed.

    LAFC started out the season as a ball-dominant possession squad, then transformed into a Red Bull-style high press transition attack machine after injuries and disappointments in continental matches. LAFC finished up the season and playoffs as a low-block contain and counter outfit that would make the Greek 2004 Euro championship squad proud. That is coaching in it's purest form.

    Columbus vs LAFC, ball possession vs transition attack. It is going to be fun!
     
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  12. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It's a little uninspiring.LAFC has millions invested in young wingers and Dolo has turned them into a sit and counter team. LAFC had one great shot from Bounga that turned a .18xg chance into a .95 xgotband then didn't draw a save for 50 minutes, while they cynically fouled Seattle for trying to play ball. I would have liked to see how the game played out of Morris's very nice shot had gone in in the 4th minute.
     
  13. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who are the young wingers that LAFC has invested millions in? Olivera, Boguz, and Biuk are all on $650K. Tillman is on $500K.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Dolo's primary job is to win with the tools provided to him by the front office.

    Last year he won the double.
    He's in the MLS Cup final this year.

    If he altered his tactics to fit his player pool this season, that's called good coaching.

    Ya know, we can all think of high profile American coaches that seem to put square pegs into round holes in order to use "their system."

    What am I disappointed with when it comes to LAFC? They really talked the talk with regards to their academy. So far...............meh. They've signed kids, but haven't given them a ton of playing time. Its early, but I would have liked more development focus. If you win MLS Cup; then the ends justify the means.

    Its kinda like Atlanta's start with regards to their academy. Signed a bunch of kids. Didn't play most of them all that much. The majority of them totally disappeared. They won trophies, so we forget it.
     
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  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    MLS has a stricter interpretation of the “clear and obvious” standard which leads to them looking at and overturning fewer marginal calls. They have all the tech, especially with the Apple deal increasing broadcast quality.
     
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  16. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They paid almost $7m for Biuk... but I agree with you. Their only truly elite player is Bouanga and he is best on the counter. Olivera has been a great complement to Vela by covering tons of ground (Bryan Rodriguez-esque). Pair that with the midfield not really controlling games against over elite teams and this is what you get for playoffs.

    There's no "burying" because of the style of play. Bogusz/Tillman/Acosta had split time pretty evenly for the 2 spots next to Ilie until the playoffs. Biuk struggled to make the impact Olivera has.

    Subbing in Ordaz to see out the conference final is a good indicator they see a future for him.
     
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  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Duenas (8 starts/18 total) and Ordaz (2 starts/18 total) are the 2 young teenage homegrowns that have gotten significant minutes this season. I don't know how that compares to the rest of MLS but I remember a time early this year when Dolo was playing MLS Next players in Open Cup matches.
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Pretty weak for the best homegrown market in the nation.

    We have a shockingly low percentage of the USMNT from California right now. Compared to previous generations at least.

    How many players combined from the LAFC and LAG academies have USMNT caps over the past year? I think we had one player from California on our last roster. Luca de la Torre, and he didn't spend time at either the LAG or LAFC.

    If there are 11 players from the Dallas academy in the USMNT over the past year, how many should there be from LAFC/LAG combined?

    I get that the LAFC academy is newer than the Galaxy academy; it's still left me wanting. Most of LAFC's first team homegrowns represent nations other than the USMNT/USYNT anyway. The last national team that Duenas and Ordaz were with was Mexico.
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The LA teams didn't fare so well in Next Pro this year considering the raw talent they have around them.

    LAFC finished 13/14, one place above The Galaxy.
     
  20. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    LA is pretty well represented on the U15 team currently playing in Portugal.
     
  21. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    That same team also has two players from Northern California.

    Among older age groups some of the best prospects are from California: Terry, Medina, Verhoeven, Neal, Tsarikis, Cowell.
     
  22. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don’t forget the transfer fees. Transfermarkt says 6.7 for Biuk, 4 million for Olivera and 1 million dollar loan fee for Bogusz.
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #5648 Clint Eastwood, Dec 5, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2023
    We've always had prospects from California.
    We had one U20 WC team that was 2/3rds players from just California and Texas.

    ...................but right now when it comes to the senior team there is a shocking lack of players from California compared to previous generations.

    We once kept up with a US Soccer Battle of the States thread. California could have fielded three teams to beat any other team. Right now a California national team is really quite mediocre. Texas is a goalkeeper away from absolutely wiping the floor with them. [Stupid Jesse Gonzalez.] Why? I don't really know what's changed over the past 20 years.

    So its like we consistently have youth players from California, but not many of them advance. And those that have played........................left the California academies without signing in MLS. De la Torre, Wright, Arriola, Hoppe, and those guys. Right now Cowell out of Northern California seems to be stalling.

    There should be an army of Jalen Neals coming out of Southern California.

    Where are they? There should be so many of them that we don't know what to do with them all.

    So don't tell me about U15s. Those are prospects. Prospects being a Latin word for "hasn't done squat yet." Where are the 19-20 year olds from Southern California breaking into the USMNT? It doesn't seem to matter if they sign with MLS, sign overseas, go to the NCAAs, go to Mexico, etc. They're just not there in the number we should want. Its weird.

    We had a roster recently with as many players from Birmingham, Alabama as we had from the state of California. Does that make sense? [Chris Richards and Tanner Tessmann are both from Birmingham.]
     
  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Eh. Jalen Neals dont grow on trees.
     
  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has California gone overboard for smaller technical players that don't seem to pan out in grown up leagues? FCD re-calibrated with 2.0 a decade ago starting with Acosta. They now want lots of physical traits + lots of skill. RBNY and Philly have physical players. Did the two brothers influence all the local clubs to chase skill at all costs because in their mind players like Weston McKennie are terrible?
     
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