MLS Flavors of the week, 2013 style

Yedlin already impressing for Seattle..

 

Agudelo is on.

 

Not to jinx him but Yedlin has looked good.

 

Now that you've had a chance to see Chivas in action, is there any chance you'd re-consider your position on this one?

 

As long as he plays, which he didn't for 45 minutes.

 

I really feel so bad for Juan Agudelo.

When he requested a trade, I am sure that he thought he would get a chance to score more goals.

Chivas USA are just such an awful excuse for an MLS club. They suck, and have very few players that would get playing time for other MLS teams.

Thats before we even discuss their idiot coach and his policy of wanting to turn the team into Chivas De Guadalajara's reserve team.

Back on topic now. Juan came in and played 45 minutes. He had one decent chance. He collected the ball and turned, but fired his shot over the bar. Otherwise, he had absolutely no service. No one on Chivas USA can create chances. They are absolutely awful. They had very little going offensively, and when they did, they couldn't create goal scoring chances.

 

Chivas USA is the perfect example of why the MLS needs relegation. They embarrassed the whole league tonight with the way that they played. They looked like an amateur squad out there. Absolutely horrendous.

Its not Agudelo's fault, but he isn't going to score many goals for Chivas USA. They just aren't going to be able to create many goal scoring chances.

I think we may be looking at history. The 2013 version of Chivas USA may gain the least amount of points ever in an MLS season. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

Well Agudelo should have scored 1 tonight. Sent it over the bar.

 

I disagree. He didn't miss a tap in. He made something out of nothing with a nice turn, and shot high over the ball while he was off balance. It wasn't the hardest shot, but I don't think you could have expected someone to score that.

 

This is one thing I've always disagreed with you on to an extent regarding Juan. Playing is important, but it's not nearly the only factor. So is the surrounding talent, tactics, coach, pressure to produce and team atmosphere.

I just don't see how playing in front of 3-5K fans, surrounded by a bunch of League One or Two talent with zero service is a good place for Juan simply because he's playing. Even if he didn't play as much I'd still think Celtic would be much better for his development in the long run. Of course other teams in other leagues would be better, but compared to Chivas?

I know it's just one game, but it was similar in just about every facet as last year's atrocious season. Looked like amateurs against a not-good Crew team. Maybe this all works out but imo it'll be more in spite of Chivas, not because Chivas ended up being a good place for Juan.

 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2013-03-02-CHV-v-CLB/highlights/212176

Here's the video of Agudelo's chance, he did well for himself, gotta put it on frame though.

Love how MLS.com spelt his name wrong.

 

I would expect someone like Agudelo to score if he is considered one of our top prospects. You have to at least put that on frame. He wasn't THAT off balance.

 

That is the pressure position. Its difficult because you are facing your own goal so often to pick the ball up off of the back line. Any mistake is usually in the worst part of the field to make one because CB's are often spreading to aid in the possession.

 

U-21/23 type of a development depends on a nation.

If you look at a German U-23 team, it's almost entirely stacked with the Bundesliga players, with a very small sprinkling of the Buli II and that is a 60 deep roster with such established German internationals as Tony Kroos, Mario Götze, Marc ter Stegen, Ilkay Gündogan, Andre Schürrle, Bernd Leno, Julian Draxler, et al.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_national_under-21_football_team#Current_squad

But that's Germany, you say.

Let's look at a much smaller nation like Denmark. There you see a mix of some Big 5 starlets (Jannik Vestergaard, Christian Ericksen, Andreas Laudrup) along with the majority of the SAS League performers. But they do play regularly with their Danish clubs.

I like his game too and he needs to be converted into a central defender at the US level. That's how he will probably make his living on the international level too. He is starting his 3rd season in MLS and is unlikely to leave prior to the expiration of his contract ... unless DC decides that a defensive midfielder isn't worth ~ $150K salary whenever it comes on the books.

 

More fans than a Celtic reserve game? As opposed to facing lesser competition every game?

Agudelo got himself into good positions today. With some decent finishing he would have had two goals and Chivas would have won.

 

The difference, if any, between the SPL and MLS isn't gigantic but Celtic are a reasonable quality team that is far superior to anything MLS can offer and Neil Lennon teaches a very attractive - if occasionally too direct - style.

For Agudelo, this is a year wasted. Much like his previous three.

 

Celtic may be better. The Scottish reserve league however, isn't in the same stratosphere.

 

Not all of the SPL is worse than all of MLS. MLS is better, but I highly doubt the Crew would be second in the SPL table right now. I'm not even sure Chivas wouldn't get relegated.

But you also ignored the coaching, the atmosphere, intensity in training, the surrounding talent when Juan would get time for Celtic, surrounded by players with higher soccer IQ. But you won't discuss all that?

I thought if I brought up most aspects of my argument you might be willing to discuss the entire situation rather than glancing over 95% of the post.

 

What do we say about players when they go overseas and sit on the bench? How often do they progress? What's the first thing we usually say, "where can he go on loan?" Something to that affect? If there was a track record of American players going to Scotland and getting better, I'd reconsider that it would be a good idea to go there and play, let alone sit on the bench.

Agudelo just needs a full healthy season and then he can let his talent shine through. Agudelo wasn't healthy the entire season. He himself said he wasn't close to 100% until the final four games of the season when he started playing much better.

 

I appreciate that response. Now I know more where you're coming from. I see your point, but at the same time there won't be much of a track record since Americans going overseas for development is still relatively new. We'll have to see how this next generation does coming through Euro academies.

When you take "American" out of the conversation since we're still a young soccer nation, who's developed more players who move onto top leagues, Celtic or Chivas? Does Celtic not have a better track record of developing players than Chivas?

Also want to ask where do you weigh learning the game the right way against simply playing? At what point do you look at a player and say, well what if he had a better coach when he was 20 and what if he learned how to play the right way?

I also don't think Juan would have been strictly a reserve player at Celtic. Quotes from Celtic suggested they thought a bit more of him than that. But say he split time between reserves and the 1st team. Is that really that bad at 20? You really don't think he makes up for it in other ways at a UCL club? Guys coming through reserves and going on to bigger and better things has happened for decades in Europe. That's the system there and it works. Why wouldn't it work for Juan?

 

Agudelo simply needs to play. He hasn't played an entire season yet in his career for various reasons. Scotland is a pretty abysmally low level of competition. If Agudelo could find a team that would play him regularly in Belgium, Denmark or Holland, then I would support a move. As it is, there isn't much of an advantage to move away from MLS for lesser competition.

 

Last year, both McBean and Villarreal were young enough to get games with Galaxy youth teams, which helped. But let's remember that Bruce Arena has said that 18-year-olds are better off in college than MLS.

How about 18-year-old Beasley and 17-year-old Convey? A bit part of the reason they were so advanced at 20 and 19 is that they had already been given opportunities at an even earlier age. As for the others, I don't see anything surprising about some of them not panning out, and I notice that your rundown omitted Eddie Johnson and Ricardo Clark, both of whom went on to make national team contributions.

Actually, Shea didn't become a starter until age 20.

In the 12 openers so far, we've had 1 starter (Yedlin) and 2 subs (Agudelo, McInerney) age 20 or younger. That's lagging way behind 2003 with its 6 starters and 3 subs. It might be fairer to look at a round of games after our U20s return to their clubs, but I don't anticipate they'll change the numbers much. There looks to be a clear disparity.

Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to have a thoughtful discussion about this. You're right that MLS is stronger now, and I expect we both see that there's a tradeoff between having a stronger league and having a league where it's easier for young players to get on a fast track to success. This past off-season, the Union followed your suggestion by sending Pfeffer out on a long-term loan. I hope that approach works out.

 

I think you've got to look at the play as a whole. The turn was better than what we typically see from our national team forwards. The shank was disappointing but could be explained by either his current foot injury or lack of form.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the level of competition and more concerned about Chivas' lack of organization. I don't think it helps Agudelo to be chasing down balls that get kicked to nowhere.

 

so uh......Eddie Gaven looked marvelous yesterday. But then again the competition....