Cameron's injury the turning point in Dynamo's Cup loss: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/21/camerons-injury-turning-point-dynamos-cup-loss
I deleted my post because I find the comparisons between the two lead to fan pissing matches. No thanks. I think Cameron has a higher ceiling. And I think his lack of mobility last night probably had a lot to do with his very real knee injury. But as I've said before, bring them both and let the best man win.
That explains the look on his face that was repeated 50x in slow motion where the ball is going in and he looks like taking a step is like walking on the moon without oxygen.
OK, fair enough. I completely agree about the injury to Cameron after reading more about it. I think you could show a little more objectivity in evaluating Gonzalez, though. He does do some things right.
Interesting article from Zonal Marking on this LD positional issue. Take a look at his chart - he really didn't stay out wide this game at all for reasons mentioned in the piece (namely, a flop known as Cristman): http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/21/la-galaxy-1-0-houston-dynamo-donovan-tactics/
I am really amazed by all the fan pissing contests in here. Seriously, look at the club to the left of the person's profile and 70% of the time their post pertains to that player being good and other players sucking. Regardless, it seems blatantly obvious that Gonzalez and Cameron both deserve their chances as does John and any other option that can play very well in MLS and looks to have skills that would translate to the national team level. We need as many options as possible as some of the current options aren't working that great. So bring lots of new faces in and let's all see how it plays out. Partnerships can be tricky so let's roll out lots of combos and see how players do before ripping to shreds other options. We really don't need to see Orozco Fiscal again do we?
As much as I enjoy this forum, the Club fanboy crap, really chaps me sometimes. It really poisons what should be Nat-centric analysis..... I was actually going to start a thread here on this issue, but a Mod told me not to....
It's just a personal preference. Something about adding a few guys who shouldn't really be there irks me. I'd rather the whole team be made up of guys in the same age bracket. For me, it makes a better miracle on ice story. I also thought that McBride's inclusion last time actually held the team back a bit. Don't get me wrong McHead is awesome, a legend, and I can understand Nowak wanting him on the squad, and McBride's desire to play in the Olympics...I just...I dunno. It just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. On Cameron: Yes, it looked like he completely misread the play, but let's be fair: He picked up a bad knock before halftime and LA was knocking on the door all game long. It was only a matter of time before Houston cracked under that pressure. They lost the game to a great run, great layoff, and great finish by one of the greatest American players of all time and arguably the best player in the league today. Whatever. Both Omar and Cameron deserve a look.
I agree with you about the over-over agers, such as Beckham, McBride, Landon, etc. I would like to see a couple of guys who are 23-24 be included, though. After all the Oly's is only every 4 years, and we have some guys in that age range that it could really benefit the national team for them to get that experience. Central defenders such as Ream, Gonzalez and John would be perfect. Geoff Cameron is a couple years older, so I wouldn't go there.
Yeah, Omar misses the cutoff by just 2+ months, so it's not like he'd be really playing out of his age bracket, and John will be 25 and Ream 24 y/o during the Olympics. We won't do well (assuming we qualify) in the Olympics with our current U-23 CB's. One thing of note though, overage players do not have to be released by their clubs for the Olympics, U-23 players do.
Gonzalez, Cameron, Ream, John All have their strengths and weaknesses. Gonzalez and Cameron however, deserve a look.
I'd still like to see us give it a shot with U-23's only. However, if we're going to take an overage player or players I would like to see it be on the defensive side. Let the kids play in attack and show us what they got. It was a lot of fun watching our guys take it to the Dutch in the last Olympics. Gave me unwaranted hope for the future.
Along the lines of Koko's McBride issue, I'd stay away from really "old" players like Boca for the overage slots. I think the team dynamics change too much when a group of 20-22 year olds has to include a 30-something or two. Gonzo is nearly Olympic age and a proven 3-year MLS vet (4 years by the Olympics). He'd be an ideal overage player, giving him some international experience at a pretty high level, while stabilizing a weak spot for the U23 group. Cameron is a bit older, but not too old, and he doesn't have much international experience. He'd gain from playing in the Olympics, and he'd also help the stabilize the team's weak spot. Plus, I think Gonzo's power game and Cameron's somewhat more skillfull style would compliment each other. It would be a great way to push those two into the US national team system, while the more experienced CB's handle the initial qualifiers next summer. Not sure who the 3d overage guy should be. Probably a midfielder. The U23 keepers seem pretty good, and we don't really have any good overage strikers.
I just don't think adding two 23 year old cbs is taking advantage of the overage rules. One 23 year old, a guy like Boca to teach them the system and organize, and add his experience, and a guy like Dempsey or Donovan to add to the attack would be perfect for me. IIRC, in the last Games, our opponents added some major overage talent.....
Which is likely to make more of a difference to the way the team performs on the field? 1) The younger players having to adjust to having a guy ten years older than they are in the locker room--bearing in mind that many of them already play on club teams with a mix of older and younger players? Or: 2) Tim Howard, Clint Dempsey and Landon Donovan? Whatever happens, I will enjoy watching our team play in the Olympics. But I'll enjoy it a lot more if we win some games. And having some of your country's best players on the field helps you win games.
Ok...your options are to play Agbossoumonde, Kitchen (convert from CDM/RB), Okugo (convert from CDM), S. Williams (convert from RB), Opara, Brooks, or White as a CB or you can go for a guy that's just a couple years older and needs the experience in Gonzalez, John, Cameron, and Ream (maybe add Rusin too). Note: that's a big difference then asking Boca, Goodson, DeMerit, or Onyewu to fill in. I would not only go for one overage but definitely would call in two overage CB's. hell, i wouldn't even be opposed to three given that we do not have one decent U-23 center back in the entire pool if for some reason we find a CDM to lock down that position and are confident with our fullbacks.
I have always liked the combination of a powerful beast in the air (Gooch/Gonzalez/Marshall/Whitbread types) with a quicker/faster/more skilled option next to them (Cameron/Parkhurst/Ream/Orozco Fiscal/whomever). It makes a stronger combination IMHO. I don't exactly know all of the strengths/weaknesses of our potential Olympic team to state exactly which players to use overage spots on but also agree with stay younger v. a legend (ala McBride) and err towards players that could benefit from the international experience (ala Gonzalez, Cameron, Ream types or comparable midfield/forward options).
It seems inevitable that Omar is going to be leaving the Galaxy next season The Galaxy could stay on top for a while, though. Only two of their players in Sunday’s game - Beckham and Keane - are over 30. And only Omar Gonzalez, 23, is certain to be on foreign teams’ shopping lists. Beckham’s future is in question, but even if he doesn’t return, he paved the way for the next Galaxy designated player. And Arena already has lined up replacements for Gonzalez.
Why shouldn't they be there? Why is there any age restriction for the Olympics in the first place? That is the truly artificial part, not the over aged players.
Firstly, Cameron will be 27 next summer, so it's only Gonzo who will be 23. And even he, as a 4-year MLS pro, will be a strong upgrade for the Olympic team. Ream, as a few others have suggested, might be a smart alternative pick, and he'll be 24 next summer. Secondly, if one didn't have to take other things into consideration, then grabbing 3 of the US's top players for the Olympics would be something worth considering. But in the real world, there are other considerations. The Olympics is probably a 4 week committment, between pre-event training camp and friendlies plus the actual games in the last week of July and the first 1-2 weeks of August. So, for MLS guys, there are MLS team matches during the summer. The overage guys don't have to be released, so you have to negociate their inclusion with their clubs. Boca and Dempsey don't play MLS club ball over the summer, but Donovan does (under current contracts). The Galaxy will have to release Donovan for the June 8 and 12 Qualifiers and the September 7 and 11 qualifiers. They would balk at losing him for an additional 4 weeks. The older Euro guys might actually prefer a rest in July/August, since they will also want to play in the June and September qualifiers, and will have to return to their clubs by mid-August. So, I think you take fringe US National team guys as the overage players, not key current Nat's you will count on for the June and September qualifiers. In 2008, McBride, Parkhurst, and Guzan were fringe Nat's, not key starters also needed for World Cup Qualifiers. I'd take 2 CBs -- pick from Gonzo, Cameron, or Ream. I'd take 1 midfielder -- pick from Feilhaber, Bedoya, Clark, Beasley, Gaven, or Davis
The age limit is FIFA protecting their cash cow known as The World Cup. That said, I really like the idea of adding a couple of the younger (but too old for U23) CBs to the Olympic squad. Many fans want to see what players like Omar and Cameron can do in international competition and the current U23 CB pool is not all that impressive. Sounds like a win/win to me.
A couple other overage options down the pecking order from the previously mentioned CB's are Soares and Anibaba. As pointed out, overage MLS players might be harder to get released