MLS, Europe, etc. (pulled from Camp Cupcake 2016)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by DHC1, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really hope the players union stands strong on this.
     
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  2. What I read in that link under the header "lock out" is impossible in Europe.
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    why do you think this is all posturing? MLS has a long history of being merciless in negotiations.
     
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  4. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well no lockout they came to a deal. Players caved again.
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I thought the league gave in on the most important point, no?
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Thinking big picture on the thread title, it’s amazing how much things have changed since I first joined BS.

    back then, we would automatically think that reserve players at Barca and Bayern were USMNT caliber but today, not a single poster thinks De la Fuentes and Richard is a current candidate for the senior team.

    The pendulum has swung (too far) the other way where we now think that Roldan is indistinguishable from a multi-year B1 player, Cannon is as proven as EPL Yedlin and that Reyna hasn’t beat out Lletget.
     
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  7. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    SUM operation "bigsoccer" has been in full gear.
     
  8. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Personally, I see someone who dominates MLS as being in the pool still. But that is not descriptive of many of the players Gregg gives minutes and starts to. U23 players in MLS are prospects that can quickly take a step forward and move to Europe. Right now, Yedlin is an EPL player and Cannon is not. But that could change in the next two windows. Same with Pomykal and other U23 players in MLS. U23 players in MLS that are some of the best on the field every game (which Pomykal is and Cannon became last Fall), should be involved with the USMNT; if only to give them a taste and possibly help a move.

    As for O23 players in MLS, I think these will be replaced by 2022. As guys are replaced, some might move to try and stay relevant. Long MLS contracts and a poor history of selling Americans makes this difficult. The same will be true of O23 2nd division players. The Championship is kind of unique because of the money it has, but players will have to move up from there to be relevant soon enough. Again U23 players in second divisions can dominate and move up quite quickly and should be involved with the senior team.

    Gregg has given a lot of minutes to O23 MLS players who are not going anywhere. He has played U23 MLS players who are not that good. Strangely, he didn't like Cannon at all until forced by injuries and has not given Pomykal more than a cameo.

    Richards is an interesting one now. The actual team he plays on is clearly 2.Bund caliber and he stands out in the games. I wouldn't think of him that differently than Pomykal or Cannon or any U23 player that is clearly a top MLS player.
     
  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    nice post and I agree with this part. Of course, that’s not what’s happening now under Gregg or previously under Arena - were taking plebeian MLS players and building around them.

    Lets see if Gregg really puts Yueill or Bradley as our hub - that is a fireable offense IMO.
     
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I agree that it is time for Adams to be given the keys. Tyler's injury let Gregg off the hook, but if he is healthy and Yueill is starting, that is nuts. Even if it is a short term transition, it is time to stop the slow learning and training exercises and leaning this way or that.

    Gregg and Bruce also have had the strange habit of playing certain MLS players over superior options from MLS. Roldan over Bedoya or Nagbe, Lovitz over Hollingshead, Lima over Cannon, Baird over Mueller, Lewis over Saucedo, Trapp over Delgado, Yueill or Parks.

    It is one thing to try and compare MLS to the Championship, but it should not be difficult to compare players in the same league. Where would we be if the only three Americans on the 2017 MLS Best 11 list had been on the field in T&T? Instead of Omar, Villafana, and Howard, it was Opara, Morrow, and Melia?
     
  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Kind of a microcosm of America's decline. It's a joint venture but in America both sides want it all. Having said that, it would be important to know what is happening in other countries because the league's reputation will decide how successful it is in attracting good players. It's a global market, not NFL.
     
  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't want to see Adams sitting at the American rhino 6 playing patty-cake old football. Let's see him develop under Nagelsman first. Havent you had enough of Bradley's "I'm the man" brand of football?
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    How about "Roldan can be distinguished from Morales because their games are different but both have faults which are hard to fit into our plans. Neither Cannon nor Yedlin are any good for country for different reasons. Gio beat out Lletget along with every other competitor when he took the pitch for the first time in BL and put on a display which his manager characterized as 'you are blind if you can't see how good he is' ".
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    kudos on a good call
     
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  15. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. As I posted it's one of several articles on mls.
    http://www.voetbalnieuws.be/zoeken/?q=mls
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    the point is that when looking at players, we should look at their ceiling and their consistency - Morales’ ceiling and consistency are good enough for a multi-year career at the b1 level and Roldan is Cleary not at that level.

    I do agree that there are weaknesses for both players and that neither have elite potential.

    The cannon and Yedlin comparison is closer as we have a proven bottom half EPL player vs. an elite young MLS player. This is where it’s feasible that the rising player could be better (although I wouldn’t count on it at all). Same with Pomykal and Morales.

    Even beyond @Patrick167, who looks at DP level contracts, I am doubtful of any mid career minor leaguer who isn’t a current Best XI / All-star / top youth in their league so I’m looking past Lletget, Holmes, Bradley, Roldan, Trapp, Lovitz, Delgado and many other Berhalter favorites. They can make the squad at the back end but shouldn’t be starters IMO (except for strikers where we have no standout players).
     
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  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't think France played a "best XI" team in Russia 2018. Do you?

    Why not? They wanted to play their" best team". Maybe you should talk to a teamster.
     
  19. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    France isn’t exactly a good example. Their so damn talented everywhere. Really only place you could point at was striker. And while Giroud might not be as good as some of the others overall he’s absolutely world class at what he does. He can hold the ball up and is extremely good passer for a classic 9. Lacazete might be better right now but isn’t world class. Giroud is world class at what he does.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Which Ligue 2 player did France play again? Because I would think that your point is that league play doesn't matter so there should be at least a couple of Ligue 2 players who fit the bill in filling out their squad, n'est ce pas?
     
  21. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    true but it still tells quite a bit. If you look at the numbers given, the top ten isn't really all that different. The top two in JPL are paid signifiantly more than anyone in MLS but after that they are very close in value MLS #3: 12M vs JPL 13.5M, #6 10M vs JPL 12M, #8 8M vs 9.5M, #10 6.7M vs 8M....but there are actually three listed in JPL listed at that value.

    that, combined with the higher total league value (with fewer teams) shows that the rest of the league is significantly better compensated vs. their MLS counterparts. In other-words, it confirms what we already know...the depth of the teams is far shallower in MLS than in JPL.
     
  22. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Wow. Do you really want to play that game? How many youth players are on their team? How many scrapper types playing for relegation battling BL teams do they have on their team? This list could go on and on. Bottom line is we are not France. If that is the point you want to make, ill agree.
     
  23. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Wow. Do you really want to play that game? How many youth players are on their team? How many scrapper types playing for relegation battling BL teams do they have on their team? This list could go on and on. Bottom line is we are not France. If that is the point you want to make, ill agree.
     
  24. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He didn’t bring up France another poster did and he was responding. We’re obviously not close to them.
     

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