MLS, Europe, etc. (pulled from Camp Cupcake 2016)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by DHC1, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Racking up numbers against a Cuba side that had half the team defect is not really a data point.

    Morris is not a possession based player. If Gregg is going for the ideal, then Llanez and Reyna are better options. If Gregg falls back on work hard and run hard then Morris is an option.
     
  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Was this a late night too-much-to-drink post? How would you describe Adams?
     
  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You missed my point and then make it again.

    The people making decisions at Miami probably do know what they are doing. As do the people in Columbus. Trapp probably makes sense for Miami at the acquisition cost they were willing to pay. No La Liga team wanted him at the cheap price. Kleiban didn't posit, "would we think of Will Trapp different if he played at Wigan". We wouldn't. He used a La Liga team. But the premise is that he is playing in MLS and not La Liga because of randomness (I guess as Brian did not explain what actually places players on the pyramid) and that has no bearing on how we think of them.

    Again, we are not to compare the Championship to MLS. Kleiban is saying comparing La Liga to MLS is not ever relevant. That where the players are playing is totally irrelevant because only he can evaluate if the player has the brains and skill to play correctly.
     
  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I don't disagree with this but I'd still like your thoughts on whether you'd treat Dest the same as you would with Reyna - where he's best at vs. moving him around.
     
  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think Dest is a player to be optimized. He should be played where he will influence the game the most. That is where he almost always plays for Ajax, RB in a back 4.

    So many US Pundits want to play him at LB to get some other RB on the field. The thinking is that the other RB is better than the LB option that it is worth taking the hit to Dest. I disagree, I think you maximize Dest and if you have to play Robinson or Ream, that is worth it.

    That includes your system. With the ball, it has to be designed to get Dest the ball where and when he is most effective.
     
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  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    But no one has Dest on the bench to play ARobinson or Cannon (each of whom are younger and has far more upside that Lletget). That's the difference.
     
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I'm not sure Dest is the best LB because I've never seen him successfully defend from that side. But that aside...

    I get the equation. We kind of did it with Fabian Johnson. We were better with FJ at LB, Yedlin at RB and Bedoya at wing than with FJ on the wing and Castillo at LB. The difference there is that the team was built around Bradley and FJ and Bradley never clicked. So, FJ, one of the top LW in the Bundesliga was never going to be that effective next to Bradley and Bradley had to start. Also, FJ is left footed.

    The Dest conversation is different because he is a RB, we have no idea who can play with Adams, and most likely the team is built around Pulisic and Dest should complement Pulisic well. The fact Pulisic is not asked to defend the left side, as much as the right wing is asked to defend that side, puts more defensive pressure on LB.

    Dest at LB means that LB has to be a dynamic attacking force. Then does Cannon have to stay back and become part of the back 3? Does he really bring anymore in that than Ream does as a stay at home LB? Or do you put Dest at LB and change the system away from 3-2-2-3. Now, we are putting a top player out of position and changing the whole system to upgrade the overall talent but maybe not the talent at any position.

    RB is deep, but that doesn't mean you play one of your best players in a worst spot. Maybe the answer is to play Cannon on the left if you can't stomach Ream or Robinson.
     
  8. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Another slightly more unconventional option that might still get all of our best players on the field (assuming Yedlin or Cannon are among our best XI players) is to start Dest further up the field. Don't know if he's ever played there, but with his skill and quickness, I could see him being pretty useful for us in an attacking role. Also we kind of have a history of some of our top players starting in the midfield for us while playing fullback at the club level. (If Nagelsmann continues to prefer Adams at RWB, he might be another.)
     
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  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    This is why I like a 523 as it puts our best players in good spots for each of them. Note: it doesn't have either Yedlin or Cannon.

    Brooks (good distribution and aerial abilities - weak in 1v1 and prone to concentration lapses) has two other CBs to cover for him. Space is compressed so he doesn't haven't to cover as much ground as we also have wingbacks who primarily play at outside backs and will be able to help.

    Dest (excellent attacker but needs work as a pure defender) as RWB has more defensive coverage (3 CBs behind and Adams/Weston as DM).

    Adams & Weston (excellent workrate and ground coverage. Highly disruptive defensively and Adams has good concentration and anticipation. Neither are possession hubs and Weston is prone to concentration errors) will work together as dynamic two-way players who are disruptive and cover a lot of ground. Adams can clearly cover for both Brooks and Weston and will have a lot of freedom of movement.

    Pulisic and Reyna (strong fast attackers particularly in transition. Aren't known for defense or breaking down bunkers) will have freedom to attack and should be hard to isolate by our opponents as we have a midfield that can look to push for turnovers / disruption (not via possession). I think that having ARobinson and Morris as complementary pieces (maybe Alitdore if we want a back to goal distributor) would be quite helpful as the total team speed will hopefully cause problems.

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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I was thinking about Couva as a data point in my post when I mentioned the last disaster when he wasn't there.
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I was talking about the kind of player Adams said he likes to "play with". His description doesn't put our best team on the pitch. There were several at Couva and they failed to qualify. Let's see how Adams himself plays when Nagelsman is through with him. In the meantime he can talk all he wants. I have nothing against that.
     
  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    There is so much more that goes into buying a MLS player than what you consider. We can't start going into a discussion of global soccer (macro) and individual business practices (micro) because it would be way too expansive, for my taste anyway.
     
  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    who are the players at couva who you think Adams thinks is similar to reyna/Pulisic/Wes?

    this should be good
     
  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nagbe, obviously. Agree?

    p.s. And let me know if I was good.;)
     
  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    How do you possess the ball and score at the same time ? I've never understood that.
     
  16. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    First, this is what camps and friendlies (and possibly AI simulations) are for. Second, Pulisic will have to become a complete player if he is not to fail at Chelsea. That means he will improve on defending and his finishing. Third, the one time Dest played left back, the combination of Dest and Pulisic attacking up the left looked very promising. Lastly, I don’t understand why you can’t have a back for that has two fbs that can attack. Teams do this all the time. There is no need for another CB. It’s up to the #6 or other side fb to cover when a fb goes forward.
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    nagbe is a good one but that’s one (and he’s a terrible partner for Bradley as he cannot compensate for Michaels weaknesses). The team was built around Bradley and there were not a lot of players like Adams described. Here are the players:

    - yedlin
    - Omar
    - Besler
    - Villafaña
    - Bradley
    - arriola
    - nagbe
    - Pulisic
    - wood
    - Jozy

    This is not a lineup that Adams was thinking of...SMH at arena and his MLS-is-better-than-anyone-knows mandate.
     
  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yedlin, omar, Besler Bradley "over the hill" (mentally if not physically) along with Tim "the groin" Howard whom you missed.

    Arriola wasn't accepted as a cmid in Mexican League.

    Jozy doesn't play the midfield well and his partner Wood just gets the ball puts his head down and dribbles into a brick wall.

    Pulisic was too young and Nagbe didn't want to be there.
     
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    None of these are guys (maybe Nagbe) that Adams was likely referring to when he said you have to get your best players on the field....
     
  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Adams was talking about a type of player.
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    First, I don't think he was describing Nagbe. Here's what he said:

    [they] just make everything look so easy. Those are the players that you just enjoy playing with because you can give them the ball in tough spots and you know he’s going to deal with it. You know he’s going to make things happen, and there’s just a confidence to him, a calm confidence. He just goes about his business. He’s not bothered by anything. He’s getting touched, he’s getting fouled, he’s playing through things. Those are the players I like to play with for sure.”

    Here are some of the things Nagbe is good at:

    - you can give him the ball in tough situations and he doesn't turn it over.

    However, for the USMNT, Nagbe doesn't make things look so easy, he doesn't make things happen, and he doesn't really play through fouls and touches.

    More importantly, that's one player. The rest of the Couva roster, outside of Pulisic, is the antithesis of what Adam's described.
     
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  22. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An Unpaved Road repped this.
  24. You know what happened after the teaparty in boston, don't you?
     
  25. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Unfortunately, none of this is surprising. It is consistent with the way "the league" has been bullying players like this since the league started. On the bright side, a lockout should result in much better player selection by Berhalter.

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/06/0...ciation-cba-coronavirus-pandemic-orlando-plan

    Major League Soccer appears to be on the verge of shooting itself in the foot. Or tripping over both feet. Or scoring an own goal. Pick your idiom for a self-inflicted wound.

    A negotiation originally centered on staging a behind-closed-doors tournament that nobody asked for has devolved into a standoff over an agreed-to-but-unratified collective bargaining agreement, leaving MLS players on the verge of a lockout that could cripple the league and wreck any chance of salvaging the 2020 season.

    Players have until noon Tuesday to agree to a package of concessions and revisions to the new five-year CBA, according to ESPN.
     

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