Surprised nobody mentioned the tremendous amount of running that Stott put in during this match. Based on what I saw, I think he had to be over 10 miles...and he was still running hard and looked comfortable all the way to the final whistle. Personally, I thought the match was too physical. But basically, the players accepted the way the game was being called and got on with it.
I compiled the MLS Cup referee history here... 2009- RSL 1, LAG 1 (5-4 PKs), Kevin Stott, 41 fouls, 2 cautions 2008- CLB 3, NYR 1, Baldomero Toledo, 24 fouls, 2 cautions 2007- HOU 2, NE 1, Alex Prus, 30 fouls, 2 cautions 2006- HOU 1, NE 1 (4-3 PKs), Jair Marrufo, 44 fouls, 4 cautions 2005- LAG 1, NE 0 (OT), Kevin Stott, 51 fouls, 10 cautions 2004- DCU 3, KC 2, Michael Kennedy, 28 fouls, 4 cautions, 1 send-off (DOGSO-H) 2003- SJ 4, CHI 2, Brian Hall, 31 fouls, 2 cautions 2002- LAG 1, NE 0 (OT), Kevin Terry, 42 fouls, 3 cautions 2001- SJ 2, LAG 1 (OT), Kevin Stott, 27 fouls, 5 cautions 2000- KC 1, CHI 0, Paul Tamberino, 43 fouls, 5 cautions 1999- DCU 2, LAG 0, Tim Weyland, 40 fouls, 5 cautions 1998- CHI 2, DCU 0, Kevin Terry, 35 fouls, 5 cautions (interestingly, in this game there were 27 fouls against CHI and only 8 against DCU) 1997- DCU 2, COL 1, Brian Hall, 28 fouls, 2 cautions 1996- DCU 3, LAG 2, Esse Baharmast, 36 fouls, 4 cautions Looking at the recent history, I do find the absence of Terry Vaughn and Ricardo Salazar somewhat surprising. Then again, they worked the conference finals this year. Otherwise, all of the more recent non-FT people that you would expect have shown up at least once... Stott, Tim Weyland, Michael Kennedy, and Alex Prus are all on there. Abi Okulaja is not (he historically has done a lot of MLS games). I also would expect Mark Geiger to make an appearance at some point in the future, based on his recent progression. I don't necessarily agree with implementing the European system of one-and-you're-done Cup assignments. For example, that may be workable for the FA Cup, but the FA Cup has also lost a lot of luster in the past 10 years thanks to the Big 4 focusing on Europe. Plus, winning the FA Cup is no longer as big a deal as winning the Champions League or even the Premier League. MLS Cup, on the other hand, is the definitive championship for American soccer. Agree or disagree with this concept, if we decide the accolades go to the winner, then the best referee should work the game, regardless of whether he has worked it before. I also want to mention that amidst the 41 fouls the other night, no player committed more than 4. There have been a lot of comments about how Beckham was kicking the snot out of the RSL players, but he was only tagged for four fouls (not including any advantages). I agree that at times the play seemed pretty physical, and he let a few things go that from watching on TV, I would not. But if Beckham commits four fouls over 60 minutes, not many of us would necessarily pick up on PI at that rate.
I think another point should be made here. Donovan does complain a lot, he tends to look for calls, etc. Should he have been booked for dissent on Sunday? I guess we should ask ourselves if his level of dissent affected the game at all. I would argue it didn't. Yes, it was annoying, but I didn't see anything that I would have booked him for. The f---- a---- comment from Beckham... uh, different story. I won't argue with popular opinion on that one.
Good post. It was indeed Kirovski who was fouled and passed the ball. It was Magee who let the ball go by him, but I don't think he had a real opportunity to play it. His momentum was taking him the other way. However, it did look like a controlled pass by Kirovski. Findley got free because an offside trap failed. At 61:10 Stott may have felt Buddle unfairly backed into Nat Borchers, but there was so much holding by Borchers that IMO a foul has to be called there. I also think Buddle should have been carded for tossing Mathis. I didn't see the Beckham challenge on Morales as a yellow card. I don't think anyone expected that Morales would be forced to leave the game. I disagree that the big name players have carte blanche to do whatever they want, although I will agree that they tend to get away with more dissent than others.
These are the plays that I feel Kevin Stott erred in MLS Cup: 00:00 Two SL players allowed inside the circle on the LA kick-off (ticky-tack but annoying). 07:56 Unfair challenge by LA uncalled, LA gains possession. 27:20 LA corner kick should have been goal kick for SL (this was an obviously difficult call). 28:11 Highly questionable foul call against SL's Mathis. 29:45 Highly questionable hand ball against LA's Kirovski. 45:38+ LA's Donovan is clearly fouled, no call. 61:12 SL's Borcher's holds LA's Buddle, no call. 61:15 LA's Buddle violently throw's SL's Mathis, no caution. 95:32+ Clear foul by SL's Williams on LA's Beckham, no call. 91:37 Highly questionable foul call against LA's Beckham on SL's Grabavoy. 108:40 Technically valid but rather ticky-tack foul call against LA's Klein on SL's Wingert, overturning LA corner. 112:52 Poorly handled restart taken from the wrong location. 114:57 Highly questionable call against SL's Olave on LA's Donovan. 118:33 Mystery call against LA's Kirovski. Stott amazes me in how quickly he is able to signal advantage or no foul.
The FA Cup is still a big deal in England! Ask the teams that win it and their fans! Also it it still the BIG match for referees in England each season. I agree about the Euro games, but they are not always going to be refereed by an English ref. The other point I was making was about the lack of depth in the ranks of MLS referees. By now there should be lots more guys at the level good enough to compete for the big game. It is still valid. Last, about the foul count. This is only the called fouls. There were lots more not called, so this analysis is somewhat flawed. PH
Counterpoint: The English system also features over 90 teams in the Premier and Football Leagues, plus all of the professional Conference teams. MLS is slowly making its way towards 20 teams, but the USL 1 & 2 is about 20 teams (or was, anyway), and then you have the PDL. The PDL seems more like a summer league for college kids and a few has-been pro players... they play a third of an English schedule in three months. The number of match opportunities in the US to allow officials to gain game experience at the highest level is much lower than Europe, and as a result USSF has to make a choice: 1) Give the best referees the majority of the assignments at the top division level, decreasing the referee pool but making those officials more experienced. 2) Try to develop more officials by giving more opportunities to greater numbers of officials at the highest level, even though this could affect match fitness and also limit "big-game" experience. I'm not saying USSF is doing the right thing... I honestly don't know. It's a completely plausible and fair argument to say that doing the second would increase competition for assignments and create more effort from referees to do better, rather than assume they have made it to the top and can now camp out there. Regardless, USSF seems to be moving towards the first option, and the idea of having a referee who has worked the top level for 10-15 regular season games for the past 2-5 years is one that I would guess the teams prefer. There's only seven games a week in MLS to give assignments to (climbing to eight next year), plus five USL-1 games. That's only 12 assignments a week. In comparison, there are typically at least 10 Premier League games each week in England. In the Championship, you have a dozen games each weekend, plus typically 2 to 3 during the week as they cram a 46-game season into 9 months. And unlike USL, where the players are playing in hopes of getting a cup of coffee in MLS, Championship teams are fighting tooth and nail for promotion or to avoid relegation, which increases the intensity of those matches. Then you throw competitive FA and League Cup games in there, plus the Johnstone Paint Trophy for the lower levels... I mean, that's a TON of high-pressure opportunities to yield a referee pool large enough to put a new guy in the middle of the FA Cup each year. I think American soccer is getting there, but we're not there yet. Maybe if we could somehow convince the powers that be that relegation and promotion would be good for American soccer development- players, coaches, and referees- we could accelerate this process, but my guess is there's a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening over here. Absolutely. But clearly, if the referee doesn't recognize an incident as a foul, he's not going to consider that incident as a contributing factor to persistent infringement.
All good points. But I stand by my position that after over 10 years of MLS and several of Div-2, there should be far more people at the top level than there are. Very few have come through in the last 5-6 years. On the fouls, the referee can consider those incidents in which advantage was played as contributing to PI. It is still a foul by that player. PH
I forgot to mention also that even though the old NASL was also the only top league here and so was the championship of the US (and essentially of Canada), and similar points about numbers of games available also applied, they always used a different referee in each Soccer Bowl, the equivalent of MLS Cup. Furthermore, there was not the lower level divisional organization that there is now. Using your principle it is possible that the same referee would get the game every year if he was still active. I don't think that would be a good thing for the referee program. PH
The logical conclusion that we have to come to is that a lot of refs who have the ambition to go far in reffing actually suck, and can't do the job properly. Which is why there are TONS of nationals, and yet only a very select few that are allowed to do MLS games.
But the question is why is this? Why are the Nationals not being developed into MLS level referees? And why are there not more MLS referees capable of being assigned to the MLS Cup? PH
Because you're wrong...and Kevin Stott is a great referee. Oh and because in America it's very hard to have a job that allows you to focus on Refereeing as well. For the last 30 years work hours have been going up while wages have been stagnating.
unfortunately at the MLS level the referees do not choose there uniform, they are instructed before the match what color uniform to wear This was Donovan who made this comment. But he was right in saying it referees let to much Dissent/ foul language go with out punishing it. I think Ricardo Salazar earned MLs Cup this year he did alot of good matches. he was even highlighted in the WiR a few times... for good things. Maybe next year will be his year to get the MLS Cup