News: MLS Coaching and Front Office - News & Discussion Thread 2024-25

This was expected by any rational fan when he was appointed. There are still English fans who defend PN. I don't understand why.

 

Isn't Neville part and parcel of the overall Paulson problem?

 

I think this is a situation where everyone is a winner.

in a perfect world Paulson would just sell the team. But I don’t see that happening.

 

In the first two weekends of this new season, I've seen several goals scored, plus other chances not scored, resulting from a giveaway inside or around the box. I don't know why keepers and center backs are trying give-and-goes in the box.

This has been happening for a while, but I'm not sure who first promoted this as a positive development. Did this start with the rule change that said goal kicks don't have to leave the box? Alex Ferguson would have benched and sold players for doing this.

 

Playing out of the back. Is it a League wide mandate or what's going on? MLS doesn't have the quality of players to play out of the back. But they keep on trying every week and they keep on failing. Top Euro clubs can play out of the back because they have the quality. MLS doesn't. But as long as MLS continues with this we will continue to see dumb mistakes that become a meme for the league on a weekly basis.

 

Dammit! We gonna keep slammin' this square peg into a round hole until we break off the corners and get it to fit!

/s

 

And how many goals are scored by successfully playing through pressure? This feels similar to the "only notice the GK when they make a mistake" fallacy.

 

It's everywhere. Half the teams in EFL League Two play that way. Notts County got promoted from the National League playing that way. It's the method being taught to coaches by the Football Association and probably by the USSF.

It always works.

The 4th #WPIOOTBGW of this season for Notts County (get ready for 2 more tweets after this one). Lots of Notts County content here pic.twitter.com/f1swC1tvjU

— When Playing It Out of the Back Goes Wrong (@wpiootbgw) March 29, 2024

Notts County are #WPIOOTBGW legends. Last season they had 3 in one game and nearly 10 on the year.

It is good to see they’re still at it, with this gem today. 🔥🔥💪💪 pic.twitter.com/wvlrldTFLt

— When Playing It Out of the Back Goes Wrong (@wpiootbgw) December 14, 2024

Notts County is either on drugs, or is just trying to troll us here at the #WPIOOTBGW Global Headquarters.

This is their 2nd #WPIOOTBGW of the game and 5th of the season.

Hey @Official_NCFC, we see you. Stop by and visit us sometime pic.twitter.com/9hpSd74RKG

— When Playing It Out of the Back Goes Wrong (@wpiootbgw) March 29, 2024

It's even infected USL

MD Myers 𝗖𝗔𝗣𝗜𝗧𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗭𝗘𝗦 on the mistake to open his @opencup account for the @Chas_Battery! ✍️#USOC2024 | @opencup pic.twitter.com/KclyhEQAqG

— USL Championship (@USLChampionship) May 8, 2024

 

I'm with you on this. We're only counting the negatives. It's similar to playing short corners. It isn't necessarily a positive. But if a team can do it right, they can convert at an higher-than normal rate.

I get that playing it out of the back usually leads to better possession, where a long ball can come right back at you.

It just freaks me out when playing it out of the back goes to DMs or CBs near or above the 18 that have some pressure on them. Or worse, an LB or RB tries dribbling through his pressure and offloads it right to the opposition.

EDIT:

Yeah, that's how NOT to do it.

The players also need to be coached that it is OK to just boot the ball upfield or out of bounds instead of making a risky choice pass to the middle of the pitch.

 

DCU sometimes does it even though their backs make donkeys look graceful and they have a generational talent in the air. It's perplexing.

 

I thought Aaron Herrera was doing well for DCU?

He was sure great getting long passes to Damir Kreilach for a year or two. Benteke seems like an even better target?

 

Yep. Without knowing how many goals are created through this tactic that wouldn't have happened otherwise we have no idea if the increased numbers of WPIOOTBGW goals result in a net negative or a net positive.

My gut tells me that if it was a significant net negative we wouldn't be seeing it as much.

 

the increased numbers of WPIOOTBGW goals result in a net negative or a net positive.

I don't know that abbreviation . . . I'm guessing there's a statistical / analytical argument which supports this play-outta-the-back approach?

 

WPIOOTBGW - When Playing It Out Of The Back Goes Wrong

 

Well, clearly there is going to be a huge learning curve. This has only really become a thing in the last decade or so, right? So GKs and defenses are learning this as adults, whereas in another 10 years, we probably won't see as many ridiculous gaffes as such players are much more used to the expectation of having some skill in passing and possession from their early teens on.

Zac MacMath had a pretty horrendous mid year in 2024 as the team changed tactics and really stressed him out playing him as a sweeper keeper. But he has always been a good-to-average GK in the league without those expectations.

Nick Rimando was way ahead of his time.

 

It's Pepball. Guardiola.

 

Absolutely. Top clubs, really in all sports, have gone all-in on very extravagant analytics. There is no doubt that the math works out based on how predominantly we are seeing it. Obviously some teams may not execute it well enough to be a net positive, but generally it must work out. There are reams upon reams of data out there at this point. If it wasn't working, we'd be seeing much less of it by now.

 

The biggest benefit is when you are on the knife's edge of losing the ball. It's why Nancy-ball features CB frequently inviting pressure, stepping on the ball. They have WPOOTBGW moments too, but they play bravely and it's a net benefit for them. Occasionally, they go long too, so it's really about picking your moments and knowing your abilities. Old school AYSO "give it the boot" "why is he passing backwards??" attitude is regressive. Sure when it backfires, it backfires...it's low hanging fruit for "analysis". No one is complaining when teams go long and get scored on 5 seconds later

 

Exactly proving the point. Top euro clubs get away with it because they have the quality of players to pull it off. Others can't.

 

Notts County is a top Euro club?

 

PSG level

 

The one play that drives me nuts is the contagious 60-second-throw-in.

Grab the ball. Look. Look again. Drop the ball for the designated throw-in player. Mosey over to the ball. Pick up the ball. Look. Look again. Fake a deep throw ahead. Look again. Fake a deep throw to the center of the pitch. Look again. Drop the ball short to a player close enough to shake hands.

Meanwhile, there would have been a quick attacking option if the first player simply threw the ball in to an open player five yards away. I totally understand it when there is a need to get the team forward and set the attack or the need to use it as a clock killing tactic, but when those situations don't exist, why waste an opportunity?

 

It seems like the linespersons should be able to have a stop watch and be able to call for a switch in possession for the throw in if it takes over 30seconds.

 

I think under the Sheffield Rules the first player to get the ball took the throw-in, irrespective of which team kicked it out.

Those touchline fights would be interesting.