And I'm already tired of seeing Cinci fans (I assume) wanting to know the details so they can judge the result and/or wanting the person who told the MLSPA about the comments to be made public...
FCC is holding a press conference to talk about the situation: This @FCCincinnati press conference should be interesting. Starts an noon 3 pm ET. Here's streaming: https://t.co/EhfUH2tiA5— Paul Kennedy (@pkedit) February 18, 2020
One of the quirks of the Dutch Santa Claus story is that he has a black servant named Black Pete who is either a demon that Santa tamed, or a Moor from Spain. During the various parades and celebrations that start the Christmas season, it is common for people to dress up as Black Pete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
Ah, that's makes sense. We have a similar thing in Iran, too. Oddly enough it involves Christmas New Year folklore...
It's an unfortunate thing, but it reflects a narrative that has been indoctrinated into the white community about the black experience. Cincinnati was home to Harriet Beecher Stowe, Fred Shuttlesworth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Shuttlesworth, it was an important waypoint on the underground railroad, and home to the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. https://www.freedomcenter.org There is this expectation that since we declared equality, the damage done by history is completely erased. Yet, all around us are vestiges of the past, we see them, yet ignore their implications. We should know better, be better. I wish I had the strength of character exhibited by Archbishop Ιάκωβος. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Iakovos_of_America
Live tweet of the press conference: Berding reiterates that based on the investigation, it wasn't an isolated incident. Details of the investigation won't be made public. #FCCincy #MLS— Miki Turner (@turneresq) February 18, 2020 Cliff's notes is that the song may have been the trigger, but there was a pattern of behaviors that extended into last season that came up during the investigation, but they won't fully release the results of the investigation. FCC denies it is a culture issue with the club and that the timely investigation and its quick resolution supports that. Noted that some of the comments may have been acceptable in the Netherlands, but that Jans didn't adjust to them to be appropriate to the US. Finally, no timeline on a permanent coach and Yoann Damet is the interim until a permanent is named whenever that happens.
Yes, god forbid they don't just accept the heavy rhetoric that FCC and the MLSPA are both firing out into the public. But whatever actually happened, no one on the outside is gonna get anything close to a full story any time soon. Either way, I'd put money on that locker room being absolute cancer for the whole season.
They can accept it or not, but FC Cinci and the MLSPA (not to mention Jans' and the player's privacy) owe them nothing. This is a private employment decision.
Oh I'm aware of that, but its still pretty shitty of them to just pump out a bunch of corporate speak and not give a particularly clear explanation of what happened. At least in the recent Petke situation, for example, the public has a pretty clear idea of what happened.
Primarily because what happened with Petke was very public. These discretions in Vinci were all apparently off camera
Not exactly comparable, Petke's was a singular comment that was made in a rather public situation and got him a red card, while Jan's was repeated comments that were made in private. We also don't know why Petke was first fined and suspended for two without pay, forced to sign a contract amendment saying he'd be fired if there was a repeat, and then, as his suspension was ending, his suspension was changed into a termination. Compare that to Jan, who didn't skip the N-bomb in a song, which triggered a complaint and investigation that found that the N-bomb wasn't the only incident of racism displayed by Jan, but rather a pattern conduct over his entire tenure with the club... All of which Jan confirmed happened, but claimed they were caused by cultural differences.
Sure, no explanation, no justification, no argument worth a kopek of salt need be given. The divine right of the "private employer" is word of Olympus, and ye mortals should just shut up. ...................But since we mortals are paying tribute, hard earned tribute, to the Gods of Olympus, when they tell us to just shut up and suck it like the crud we be it just may occur to us to take that tribute and instead shove it into those aspects of their being where the sun do never shine.
That's just entitled crap. This isn't fans calling to explain why a good coach was fired or a bad coach wasn't. This is fans wanting information about what appears to be what would be considered in a regular business a HR violation that led to an employee choosing to resign (officially anyway) instead of fighting it. That's a legal minefield that both the league and the players association is understandably maneuvering through, and acting like the fans have some right to the results of the investigation is ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of how things work. As to demanding the name of whatever player (or players) approached the MLSPA with their concerns, as I've seen multiple fans demand today, is a violation of their relationship with the MLSPA and their rights, and is a dangerous road to go down.
The MLSPA and FCC/MLS don't even seem to agree exactly what happened. I mean, the PA basically called the lockerroom singing thing bullshit while FCC seems to maintain that episode did happen. The primary reason their fans want to know what happened has more to do with their season getting a severe handicap right out the gate more than anything else...which to them should warrant a pretty clear reason and explanation why it played out the way it did. If the official parties were more up front about it I think most reasonable people would have an easier time letting the matter rest and move on. But yeah...Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for new products.
Doesn’t even necessarily have to have been a player. Could have been a trainer, coaching assistant, janitor, intern or anyone who was is the general vicinity. Word gets around. Especially if things happened last year, one person talks to another who talks to another, maybe on a different team. Pretty soon someone who hears the rumors is in a HR sensitive position and should act. Or someone after their exit interview blew up the Jans’ spot to the union. Who knows? Thx, Jay!
Which is a really good indication that lawyers are (or will be) involved, so thinking that either side is going to say anything that might possibly be incriminating or taken as such before all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed is naive. I don't have a good reference point, but I'm willing to bet that similar incidents in other leagues aren't wide open either, those leagues just have reporters who are paid to figure it out. MLS suffers from a lack of that. Or, like Petke, the triggering incident was public enough that there's not choice but to acknowledge it. But yeah, keep demanding what the lawyers will refuse to give. We're only talking about the long-term livelihood of a coach and/or a player.
(*reads recent Cincy stuff in thread*) (*heaves long sigh*) Is THIS the league we will have fought for five years to get into?
I'm thinking in both cases, people put up with stuff. People toughed it out. In both situations, a tipping point was reached and it was unrecoverable. In Jans case, there was an attempt by someone to make a case for cultural insensitivity. Team official statements avoided this, favoring awaiting the results of an investigation. Even in the statement the team released announcing the resignation, there was an attempt to allow Jans to save face by making it his decision, but mentioning that themes emerged. In hindsight, one question that I have is what intentions Njiekamp had for Jans. They had worked together. Jans was brash (the bird shooting...), out of work, and FCC only hired him through this season. Was this an attempt by Njiekamp to rehabilitate Jans? We all deserve a second chance. I do think that Jans would have been retained past this year if the team was successful and these incidents kept under wraps. The assumption is that the team knew about stuff that has become public with the MLSPA filing. The alternative is willful ignorance, which is not better. There is a tendency amongst the fan base to blame the messenger. This is a big loss, and the fan base is in the anger stage of grief, with some moving to bargaining with de Jong. The second Damet reign will start with depression, and move to acceptance with either a successful start if t ge season, or hiring of a new coach.
Having this shit dragged into court would be fun, because all the cards are forced onto the table and it goes into the public record. ...if only we'd be so lucky. Welcome to MLS! Pull up a chair to the dumpster fire! There's plenty of warmth to go around, and there'll be a fresh one ignited guaranteed when the current one burns out!
While I agree that particular incident led to his termination, Petke had a laundry list of unacceptable behavior that would have done most coaches in, except the team kinda kept doing okay. Our chicken-shit owner only pulled the strings when sponsors started threatening contract termination. And then he came out with some BS public explanation, which is going to cost him a good deal of $$$. (Like he cares that much. He just blew 1.3million on a coin for his collection.) I know this is about Jans, but I just wanted to clearly state that Petke's and Jan's situations are completely different. Petke was just unhinged, and threw the most vile insult that he could think of in Spanish, repeatedly, which just happened to be a homophobic slur. I'm guessing that Jan's casual racism was just too much for the organization to look beyond, especially after a complaint was filed and it couldn't be swept under the rug anymore.
Meanwhile, one of the Cincinnati players has been charged with two felonies in the past 72 hours and is evidently still on the team, with no comment (let alone a press conference) from the front office. https://www.espn.com/soccer/fc-cinc...attocks-faces-felony-charges-in-pennsylvannia