And you would lose those 500 dollars. If an American wanted to go in and start a team from scratch, he would have to go to the general secretary and turn in all the necessary paperwork and meet at requirements (stadium, etc). But he would start in the 4th division. The 4th division does not allow any foreigners. Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization. If he won the promotion playoffs and went to the 3rd division, he would only count on Mexicans. Again if he did pull the miracle of winning the promotion playoffs, then you would go to the second division. There, he could count on 4 foreign players. BUT now, you are dealing with big dogs with a lot of cash. And its hard for teams to get to the first division. That is why in the last 20 years, its usually the same teams that you see moving up and down. I just dont see an American loving the game that much in Mexico that he would rick losing millions and taking years maybe decades to get to the first division. If an American wanted to go in there and buy a first divivion club and relocate it, change the name.. he could if the franchise didnt have any prior contracts with the city. he could hire 5 foreigners and one naturalized player. There have been foriegn owners in the MFL. I am surprised an American hasnt done it yet considering the money those clubs can generate both in Mexico and in the US. MFL regulations strictly state that a club can only have 5 foreigners on its roster. If he wanted to get 5 americans, no one is to stop him. Whether you like it or not, FMF has laid a lot of the ground work here in the US. There was a time the only live game you could watch on FREE TV was the Mexican league on a US spanish network . There was a time that the only profesional teams you could watch in a stadium were from the Mexican league. Sure they had indoor soccer and whatnot, but not a real fisrt division. I remember friends of mine who would go to Dallas and Houston with thier folks just to watch an MFL match. All in all Deg, you are comparing apples to oranges. The MFL is an established league. Investors know it will still be around tomorrow with a better product. although it maybe hard for MLS fans to accept, MLS still does not have its own identity, a sense of its own self. Its still trying new things here and there. Its teams still dont make money so they have to try different things. a time will come when they will do away with single entity. And it will pay off to have those types of owners. Love them or hate them, owners like Jerry Jones, george Steinbrenner, Eddie De bartolo, Jean Azcarraga (Club America) raise the stakes. They will do anything to see their team winning and rivalries will start because of it. owners trying to out do one another in essence is a form of competition and competitiveness that will reflect on the field and in the players. I dont know how much ou know about Vergara, but he is a show off and people will hate him. People will go watch him just to boo him. So what, at the end of the day, money is being made.. and like it or not.. a league needs money and tons of it to ensure that there is a next week. I can already picture it .. America Jrs and Chivas Jrs in the MLS. the teams to hate. Hating Mexicans, a new national past time amongst MLS fans hahahahahaah
Immigrants are a large component of the fanbase and players in this country and kept it alive during the 50's and 60's when Mayflower Americans were busy with other sports. Give respect and don't forget. You are the one who sounds desparate and self-conscious. We live in a global economy. If you look at soccer leagues in other countries, you will find foreign investment. There is also nothing mutually exclusive about foreign investors that prevents American investors from getting involved, too. In fact, any investment, whether it is foreign or not, may spur even more investment from other people, who may just be Americans. The team will follow MLS rules. And look around in MLS right now: every team has 3 foreigners over 23 without green cards, ANY number of foreigners with green cards, and up to 2 foreigners without green cards under 23 who are considered transitional internationals. I can have half my lineup composed of foreign players if I wanted. Mexicans are all monkeys without brains and will not "follow" the rest of the league? I don't get it. Will Chivas San Diego exist in a bubble, or will they actually be playing other teams in a league? If they get a lot of fans and support, this is GOOD for the LEAGUE. You come off as very provincial, and your fear is unfounded. Who is "ourselves"? Does the huge Mexican-American population in this country count as "ourselves"? Maybe you don't have Mexican-Americans in North Carolina. Anyways, speaking of North Carolina, I am glad there are no Southern teams in MLS. We don't need Southern money, we can do this ourselves. Like the way that sounds? - Paul
I think you're making way too many assumptions - you're really assuming the conclusions. And you're assuming the worst scenario in all cases. In particular, you can't assume that Americans won't play on SD Chivas or that those who do won't develop well. We don't really know yet how Vergara will build this team. His print and radio interviews and comments vary widely. Additonally, Dr. Wankler's point a few posts above should also be addressed if you want to evaluate the impact of SD Chivas on American player development fairly and accurately. You also assume too much about fan reactions. We don't even know yet how the team will be marketed - again, Vergara and other Chivas officials are all over the place with their marketing commments. In any event, don't jump to conclusions about who will be alienated. Don't assume that everyone will react the same way that you would. Obviously, everyone doesn't. First, the Mexican-only policy is a pretty uniquely Chivas thing. America is actually known for its flashy, big-name foreign signings. Tigres and Rayados have big followings here in Houston and both clubs feature a number of important foreign players. And so on. Second, you're again jumping to unwarranted conclusions about how third parties would react. Even if SD Chivas proves successful, there's no reason to assume that Televisa (America) or other big Mexican investors would do things the same way. And if other investors such as Televisa come in, then each individual case may present its own benefits (e.g., Televisa's relationship with the Univision nets could be tremendously valuable). I understand that's what you were implying. I just think you're wrong. The point I made above was that, to the extent that the youth policy in Southern California actually identifies players who wouldn't otherwise be identified, it'll turn up the occasional American player as well as non-US citizens. I think you've raised some interesting issues about Vergara's investment in MLS, but this media hand-wringing isn't one of them. If you think that having a team named Chivas with a Mexican investor will stand as some sort of barrier to mainstream media enthrallment with MLS or that the possibility of SportsCenter making goat jokes actually means anything, then, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
I hope you are a rare breed. I don't want your jingoism to speak for me. Something about you reeks of johnny-come-lateliness, because I never used to hear all this jingoism from soccer fans before. The foreign element is an important part of the game in this country, because soccer is a world-wide game. AND this is the United States where immigrants are part of what makes this country what it is. - Paul
Not trying to start a flame ************ but you owe me 500 because if you had read my previous posts I stated that FMF would never allow it for several reasons: 1)club would be 85-90% american 2)have to start in the 1st division . No apples and oranges to compare here. sound familiar? ;-) oh by the way.... don't be a horse's arse.
Re: Re: MLS Chivas a bad thing? You should change your handle from bright to not-so-bright. After all the gentleman wasn't flaming anyone. He stated a fact and that's that MLS is an American league. OURSELVES = americans . I certainly hope you understand that a little better. The whole argument is not about mexican americans so get off your high horse.
1. Latinization and Mexicanization are two different things. 2. Wow, the US is already BURGEONING with so much green-card holding talent from Mexico. Vergara is going to have his pick up the litter! I am so jealous. - Paul
As long as new MLS teams adhere to the following two things I do not have a problem with them having foreign investors. The Seattle Mariners are owned by the Japanese don't forget. 1.Must follow MLS rules as far as roster make-up is concerned. 2.Must be located in the USA (No teams in Canada, Canadian ownership fine)
You really think it's going to be hard to get a green card? Btw there plenty nationals here in the states with green cards..no excluding Mexicans.
A) There is no official language unfortunately. When you visit a foreign country it is polite to attempt the native language. When you move to a foreign country you are expected to learn and speak the language of that county. B) Do you think he was referring to North America or the United States of America? I think I know. C) If I say Berlin am I speaking German? Paris French, Rome Italian? Please
I am willing to bet $500 US dollars that MFL would NEVER let an american create a new club in MFL consisting of mainly americans do you? technically there are 2 ways of starting a new team. one is going through the ropes and paying your dues, but in the 4th and 3rd division, you wouldnt be allowed to use foreigners. The other is just buying a franchise in the first division. It has happened before. In the last 5 years it has happened like 5 times. In fact, Colibries used 7 players that were not born on Mexican soil. But that guy was just in it for the quick buck and Im glad he is not around anymore nor his team. because of what the Clobries owner did, FMF changed the rules and only allowed 1 naturalized player to play. SO, yes someone could start a club in the first division. Now, you never said 85-90% and you never said anything about the first division. Its a whole different scenario in Meexico5 Foreigners and 1 Naturalized players is 6. 6 players not born of Mexican descent and 5 players of Mexican descent. That to me is majority. And yes, you are comparing apples to oranges. The MFL is an established league. We dont have to cater to anyone, we only cater to the football fan. We have promtotion/relegation. So teams have to find a way to invest and make money to ensure a place in the top flight How much longer can a developmental league go on without pulling the plug? How much longer can a fan digest a developmental league? Sooner or later, it will have to be more than that for soccer to grow and why not now? I know fans that support it just becuase its American, but are starting to go back to Euro and Latin football. A developmental league wont make you money and wont be around for too long. So even if a team consist of 6 foreigners and 5 Americans, those are 5 slots that were not even available 9 years ago. So after college, they had nothing. 40 percent of something is better than a 100 percent of nothing oh by the way.... don't be a horse's arse. and dont be so closed minded
I think you missed the point. The MFL limits the number of foreigners just like you said. They would never allow a team to be built without Mexicans. Whey then should MLS allow it?
i think you guys are being to literal when Vergara says it will be full of Mexicans. he knows, you know, and I know that cant happen. But if he wants to use players from the Chivas reserve teams and his LA camps, whats the big deal. Many clubs do it.
I didn't want to read through all these pages, so sorry if I say something that's already been covered.. a) We, as fans, should make sure we do not allow MLS to let Chivas break the rules b) MLS cannot expand to Toronto, Montreal, or any international city or else it would lose FIFA sanctions. c) It is not true that other Mexican fans (non-chivas) would join the team that smashes them. Example: America v. Lazio.. All mexican fans (cruz azul, america, pachuca) supported America because they represented Mexico.
People, the U.S. is in a fairly unique situation. There's a market here for an all Mexican team. There aren't enough people from the States in Mexico to warrant having a team there. If there weren't a market for it Vergara would just make a normal team.
No billionare wanting to invest in mls CAN BE A BAD THING No new team for mls CAN BE A BAD THING No new team marketting itself to bring in a big population group to the stadium CAN BE A BAD THING. case closed, close this thread
The Japanese would love it if this so call American team is good enough to compete and bring something to the league. Competition, uniqueness, a different baseball style (U.S. baseball and Japanese baseball are in many ways different), providing a great opportunity for American Japanese (American-heritage but Japanese citizen a chance to play). Of course this will never happen because there is no 30% of American-heritage Japanese citizens out of the population living in a Japanese city. anyway, I welcome this new investor. He seems to know what he is doing. MLS hasn't done a great job attracting Hispanics to the game, maybe this Chivas team might.
HAHAHA, funny. You should know that MLS only allows 3 foreign players on its roster. Check Man U or Arsenal and you would find that they only have 2-3 English starters, the rest are foreign. If it is anything, it is MLS that is putting the cap on foreign players and not EPL, La Liga or the German league. I don't know the exact figures but lets just say that I would not expect more than 3-4 americans on the club. Does that sound like an american club to you? I am willing to bet you anything that the majority the players are Americans. The team will be predominantly Americans unless your defination exclude a Mexican American (who born in this country, or a citizen) or a Hispanic American being consider AMERICAN. Last time I check, if you are a citizen of the United States, you are considered AMERICANS. if you are Anglo-American, you are an American if you are African-American, you are an American if you are Hispanic-American, you are an American if you are Asian-American, you are an American if you are Native-American, you are an American As far as the many articles dealing with Chivas, they say that Vergera will use AMERICANS on his CHIVAS team, except for the 3 senior international players. Let just say this: Nothing has been confirmed. WE do not know what Vergera will do but all things pointed to the fact that he will follow MLS rules, regulations, rosters, salary just like any other teams. As far as I am concern, he is a welcoming investor that want to invest in MLS. If he wants to name his team Chivas, then let him. If he want Chivas to wear color X,Y,Z, then let him. If he wants to have player X,Y,Z in which it is legal to the laws, or mls law, then let him. MLS allows 3 senior international players, and if he wants to use Hispanic players from Central or South America instead of European players for those 3 spots, then let him.
Originally posted by TWR As long as new MLS teams adhere to the following two things I do not have a problem with them having foreign investors. The Seattle Mariners are owned by the Japanese don't forget. LOL? 3 players on the team. Ichiro, Hasagawa, Sasaki. And there are less than 1% of the population are Japanese-American in Seattle compares to about 30-40% of Hispanic/Mexican-American in San Diego.