MLS Chivas a bad thing?

Discussion in 'Archives: CD Chivas USA' started by galperin, Sep 19, 2003.

  1. galperin

    galperin Member

    Feb 1, 2001
    Maineville, OH
    Does anyone else this whole MLS Chivas thing is a really bad idea? I do.

    For a few reasons:
    1. The American press will pick this up and say soccer will only survive in America because of foreigners.
    2. It makes reason #1 seem true. I think it sends a horrid message. I think it makes MLS look like an even more desperate league than it really is.
    3. It takes away from MLS being American. Let Mexico have their own damn league. I personally do not want Mexican investment in MLS. Not because of prejudicial reasons, but b/c we need to do this ON OUR OWN.
    4. I do not want a team full of foreigners. We need to establish American players, not anybody elses players. I do not want a team here in the US that might use a foreign language as its primary language. This is America, damn it.
    5. It will, in the long term, hurt Mexican-American following of the league as a whole. You can bet if there is a "Mexican" MLS club, it will be the only one Mexicans will support. Other clubs will lose whatever Mexican fan base they have.

    Again, this is not intended to be a Mexico bashing, rather, a statement WE CAN DO THIS OURSELVES. WE NEED TO DO THIS OURSELVES. Personally, I think this MLS Chivas thing will do severe long-term damage to American soccer.

    Other thoughts?
  2. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    It's not the greatest idea in the world, but someone wants to put money into MLS, I say go for it.

    As for your reasons:
    1) Well, that will definitely destroy the notion that ours is a liberal media. Supposedly the new team will follow MLS roster rules anyways.
    2) Investors aren't knocking down our doors just yet. That's a reality.
    3) It does not take away from being American. What is being American anyways? Hey, I'm as jingoistic as the next guy about MLS, I say call it soccer and keep the overtime, which is why I'm more than confident that the Chivas expansion will end up with its own American slant. Trust me.
    4) Sounds like #3 in some attempt to number more reasons.
    5) Just as long as attendance doesn't drop, and imagining that it will is ridiculous.

    As for whether or not "we can do this ourselves" I strongly suggest you read up on how American culture has been built up over the decades. There's pride, and there's arrogance.
  3. Femfa

    Femfa New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Los Angeles
    The "WE CAN DO THIS OURSELVES" mindset can get really narrow - it might be part of the reason the WUSA failed.

    I don't think that giving San Diego it's own personality is a bad idea - basing that personality on Mexican culture - well, that would seem to limit the fan base . . .

    But hey, we're talking San Diego, where half the streets are named Avenida Sol, Calle Cabrillo and fully a fourth of the restaurants are Mexican.

    And none of the Americans seem to mind that.

    I have to admit, I don't like the name, Chivas, but then, I didn't like the name Galaxy years ago.

    So long ago.

    But bottom line - we need new investment if MLS will thrive and grow. Don't look a gift horse in the sombrero.
  4. galperin

    galperin Member

    Feb 1, 2001
    Maineville, OH
    I am quite aware how America was built, thank you.

    You used the word pride. Pride is what part of the MLS Chivas problem would be. Latinos who are here in America are extremely proud of their home country and culture. They like living in the US, but they are quite proud of their roots and want to stick to them (ask anyone who works with Latinos and they will tell you this is true). Part of MLS's goal is to attract Latino fans to the American league. MLS Chivas will not do that. This will make MLS fail in its endevor to win over Mexican fans. Mexicans WILL follow their "home" side, I promise you. Again, not because they do not like America, but because they are SO proud of Mexico, they will abandon MLS clubs for "their" club.
  5. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

    And even if it were true, what does it matter? Attracting Hispanics to MLS is just one goal. The idea is to get all kinds of people involved with the league. What do we care about who belongs in our fan base. Listen, I'm not Hispanic, so if I promise you that I won't abandon my Metros for another club, will you drop your Chicken Little routine?
  6. Not true, you forget something... and is that the team will be CHIVAS. What about CF America Mexican-American followers? The Cruz Azul and Pumas Mexican-American fans? Will they support a team Called CHIVAS or the first MLS team who smash them?
  7. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. You basically saying foreign investment into MLS is damaging. IF say Billionaire X want to invest in a NBA or NFL, or NHL, MLB team, would that be benificial to detrimental to the league?
    would MLB be less American if a billionaire from Japan invest in say the Mariners ? (you should check to see who own the Mariners yup, it is a Japanese billionaire)

    If the Japanese population in Seattle is somewhere 30 %(which in reality is less than 1%) would this Billionaire from Japan stock pile its roster with Japanese players be detrimental to baseball?
    Remember, there are 3 Japanese players in the Mariners roster right now.

    And all we know from sources is that Vergara will follow MLS rule. Sure he would want his team to have a Hispanic flavor, but he will have at least 5 non-Hispanics players on his team.

    Why would bringing in a new and exciting investor to MLS be detrimental to the league? It will create new rivalry, and a new soccer style if Vergera utilize Latin soccer style. It would develop Hispanic Americans soccer players in ways MLS can't.
    Let me ask you this. Has MLS done a good job finding and developing Hispanic American players? There is almost little scouting done ....etc.....
    Maybe Chivas can change this.
  8. Lithium858

    Lithium858 Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    Baton Rouge
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Imagine if a rich American bought a Japanese club and filled the roster with Americans. How do you think the Japanese would react to that? I doubt they would like it because it would seem arrogant. Anyway, I agree with Galperin.
  9. efvera173

    efvera173 New Member

    Jul 7, 2003
    San Diego
    4. "I do not want a team full of foreigners. We need to establish American players, not anybody elses players. I do not want a team here in the US that might use a foreign language as its primary language. This is America, damn it."

    A) I wasn't aware that there was an official language in the United States.
    B) America is not just the US. Mexico, Brazil,Canada & etc are also part of America.
    C) You probably speak Spanish and you don't even know it (ie, California, San Diego Padres, Tacos, Corona)
  10. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    MLS Chivas

    Vergara is full of it. He is telling the spanish language mexican press that the team will be all or mostly mexican for marketing purposes. If MLS lets him break the rules we should all get a chance to kick everyone in league management in the balls for being idiots.

    I suspect that wherever possible MLS/San Diego Chivas (please god pick another damn name) will use hispanic players. If the team played where I'm from this would be stupid, but it will play in SoCal, where there are literally hundreds of thousands of hispanics in driving distance. But if they find a way to field a team based solely on race instead of talent the team will fail to draw hispanics as well as everyone else.

    Foreign investment is good in small doses. Currently MLS is not profiting so adding another investor to share 1/11th of the operating losses is great, as long as he is in it for the long run. If Vergara is committed to the longterm success of MLS great. If he is a fly by night billionare investor who will soon be making less than me or in jail, not so good.

    Currently MLS attendance is mostly white. Which is fine because most people in the USA are white. MLS feels that because hispanics love futbol all around the world they should also love MLS. The problem is that they love the team from their hometown so much its hard for them to switch allegiances. Their children will be influenced by their parents' views but will be able to be influenced and this is where MLS should hope to provide an American futbol option. A product of soccer that all Americans can be proud of. And one of the best ways to do this is through new investment.

    I hope the new San Diego team will focus on youth player development because MLS hasn't done crap. They will hopefully show the rest of MLS how its done.

    To sum it all up: Long term money good, Fly by night billionare bad, expansion good, name MLS chivas bad, bending roster rules bad, kick in the balls depends who you are.
  11. deg2k

    deg2k New Member

    Aug 3, 2003
    Austin, Tx
    Your anology is quite aweful. MLS has not been around for 20-30 years or more with a solid base of players and money. Baseball has been around for 100 plus years. The whole point to this is money and support for an American league which includes developement of American players (hispanic, euro decent etc etc). MLS was not created solely for the purpose of promoting the Mexican league. Would you agree on that?? Now I want to know if you can guarantee that the new investor/owner doesn't want to promote the Mexican club CHIVAS. Of course not lol. It's so obvious and that's what has alot of us worried. How many Americans do you see playing on this team? I see maybe 3 or 4 which is WRONG.

  12. Calexico77

    Calexico77 Member

    Sep 19, 2003
    Mid-City LA
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An Interesting issue would be if the MLS wanted to Expand to Toronto (as discussed in right now, I think). I mean, if the MLS is for Solely U.S. development, any Canadian input would be just as dangerous to our precious American players, right?

    Or do Canadians not count cuz they're white? (maybe Montreal is a better example. They speak french).

    And to echo El Charro Negro earlier: I have a lot of Mexican friends who hate Chivas Mexico like I hate the Yankees. They are looking forward to having the Galaxy kick them around.

    I think Chivas bringing a team to the MLS is a good idea. I want expansion, and they at least know the sport.

  13. deg2k

    deg2k New Member

    Aug 3, 2003
    Austin, Tx
    Who cares whether you will hate them or not. The question is will this benefit American developement and I don't just mean anglo-saxon(white) players lol. If I want to watch Chivas then I turn the TV channel to a mexican station otherwise who cares about them.

  14. gyr0

    gyr0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2002
    Lets face it, MLS Chivas represents nothing more than a foriegn presence in a supposedly American league. As much as this league needs investment, we are in a sad state if we are to acccept such a bid straight away, and this move speaks for the lack of other viable invetment interest in MLS. If Vegara is truly allowed to name the MLS team "Chivas", this acts as a slap in the face to every American that has every watched, attended, or supported MLS, for beyond mere dollar amounts and investment potential, it is the betrayal of a fundamental principal on which the league was founded. I would much rather wait a few years and allow each team to build a stadium with view of profitablility, rather than accepting foriegn infidels in to OUR league. We are a rare breed, the American soccer fan, we are fiercely proud of the accomplishments of our nation and we should rally together in support of our fellow countrymen, rather than diluding our game with a foriegn presence.
  15. galperin

    galperin Member

    Feb 1, 2001
    Maineville, OH


    And somebody mentioned Montreal. I do not want a team there either.
  16. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Chicago Fire
    Re: Re: MLS Chivas a bad thing?

    This is the smartest thing said on this thread.

    When Pumas played the Fire, about 30,000 people showed up, many of them Mexican-American. And quite a few were wearing Pumas shirts (and I have to admit, they're damn cool shirts), but for every Puma shirt, there were several non-Puma shirts as well. The same thing happened two years later when Chivas came to play. There were some Chivas fans there, but the vast majority were anti-Chivas, and were there to cheer against them.

    Hell, given how many Mexican-Americans DON'T like Chivas, this could be a great way to boost attendance among Mexican-American fans.

    Of course, most of the people on this thread will prefer to remain ignorant of the subtleties of soccer (you know, like the fact that Mexicans don't all cheer for the same MFL team, and that the MLS version of Chivas will operate by MLS rules, etc.) and will miss this point.
  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Chicago Fire

    This is the dumbest thing said on this thread. Well, with the possible exception of "this is American damn it."

    If "the American press" pickus up on this, a smart PR guy can simply point to the roster of most major league baseball teams, many of whom have several guys who don't speak English.
  18. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let 'em come

    I say let Vergaras start his team and let him try as much as possible to make a team of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans.

    1) They will instantly increase attendance at any game due to Chivas fans.

    2) They will instantly become the most hated team in MLS since all Mexican non-Chivas fans will hate them and many of non-Mexican descent will hate them just for Vergaras arrogance at pulling this off. Why should Central American immigrants support a Mexican team? More likely they will cometo boo them. So another attendance boost.

    3)They will struggle to get a .500 record since they limit themselves to the Mexican roster. And if they have to sign non-Mexicans, which players with any say in the matter will watn to go there? ( I know players have little say now, but in a few years?).

    4) Mexican goal keepers.

    5) Some guy named Arena has already shown every US professional how to beat Mexican teams.

    So we get a team with the attendance pull of Manchester United, but who lose more often than not. What could be better?
  19. PFSIKH

    PFSIKH Member

    Nov 1, 1999
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By Gyro
    What? Isn't DC United a slap in the face? I know for a fact any team named the Crew with their Village People logo is a slap in the face. Look through the history of Soccer in the US. The manaufactured names of professional sports sucks. You can have your Salty Dogs. I would rather have the MLS represented by a team with a rich tradition then some lame name like the Galaxy, Burn or MetroStars.

    By Calexico77

    There is no professional league built solely for the development of a nation's players, especially soccer. The MLS was built to have professional soccer here in the US, not to be a feeder system to USMNT. A 10 team league is not even big enough to even do this. How good would the USMNT be if a good amount of their best players did not play in Europe. You want a great USMNT, let's develop a great MLS with more teams.

    By deg2k

    Why did the NFL give the CFL money to keep it alive? Why has the NFL and Arena Football league entered into a relationship? Why does the NFL keep NFL Europe alive? To promote football. Arguably the most successful and proftiable sport in the world, has given money to another league, formed a relationship with another and keeps another cash drain alive for the sole reason of promoting football. Why? I doubt you can not watch any CFL, Areana or NFL Europe game with hearing about an NFL player or the NFL and the ultimate goal is to keep the league in the news and on everyone's mind. A San Diego or Houston Chivas is going to help accomplish this.

    The bottomline any investment in the MLS is good. The money will be going into the league and into an American city with American players.
  20. hamlet

    hamlet New Member

    Mar 20, 2003
    Proud of the inheritance of knowing that we belong to something in common, language and needs. Although when you refer to Latinos, Do not ever, never confuse words Latino vs. Mexican. This has been said before, there are fans of 20 or so other countries who care less of a team built from Mexican descedant (sp) but citizen of America with the name with a root in Mexico. My passion is built toward the team that represents my sourrounding, the team that is common to my group of friends, and my city: Chicago Fire.
  21. deg2k

    deg2k New Member

    Aug 3, 2003
    Austin, Tx
    It's not a slap in the face. A foreign team didn't invest in Columbus Crew and call it Crew USA! So what if LA is called Galaxy. It has an American flare to it.

    Major League Soccer was created for the sole purpose of American developement and another avenue for Americans to play that had no other option than Europe. Good indication on how far we have come is the impact on the US NATs in WC 2002! Half of the US NATs was from MLS lol. The league will grow without CHIVAS. Several cities currently bidding to have an MLS club right now and we will have between 12-14 clubs by 2006.

    CFL continues to lose cash. Arena football is promoted here in the states and gives american football players another option. As for NFL europe, there would not be NFL teams there if it wasn't for the NFL. Europe could care less about it anyway. You are making horrible comparisons for your argument except for maybe CFL.

    Not to be rude but why can you not understand that Chivas USA will not be an American club! Fine if they want to invest money I am all for it but not to promote the MFL.
  22. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Maybe the sad truth is that the best opportunity to make a buck selling live soccer in the USA is to target the 40 million mexican americans and to let whomever else is interested come along for the fun?
  23. anderson

    anderson Member+

    Feb 28, 2002
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, if SD Chivas follows MLS budget and roster rules like every other MLS team (as indicated in the first post in the other thread in which you're also posting), then would it qualify under your definition of an American club?
  24. deg2k

    deg2k New Member

    Aug 3, 2003
    Austin, Tx
    And now you have hit the nail on the coffin. This is what I was talking about. The new owner has no intentions of promoting anything more than CHIVAS. Do you really honetly believe this betters the american game? And what makes you think that 40 million Mexican Americans will respond to this positively? I am willing to bet $500 US dollars that MFL would NEVER let an american create a new club in MFL consisting of mainly americans do you?

  25. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Just like George Steinbrenner has no intention of promoting anything more than the Yankees. Is that all of a sudden a bad thing?

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