MLS Career Goals from Run of Play

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by MouseyTongue, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I need some help in figuring this one out, since I can't find career PK stats for Twellman and Lassiter. All I know for sure is that neither of them has more than 10 since MLSnet does have a list of all-time PK leaders and neither of them is on it.

    This is what I have:

    98 Kreis
    92 *Razov
    88? Lassiter
    86? *Twellman
    82 *Cunningham
    76 *Moreno
    (*active)

    Surely someone knows the PK numbers for Lassiter and Twellman (I believe that number may well be 0 for Twellman) Also, I've lost track of announced retirement plans for the active players in this group. It would appear that Twellman has a very decent shot of topping this list by next season and should go on to be the overall goal scorer in MLS in another season or two. I know that I'm leaving out Ruiz, but he also takes a good number of PKs so he wouldn't be ahead of Moreno. He might have a shot at the overall career goals, although it would seem that Twellman has the better shot.
     
  2. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not as many as you might think. For one thing, his team did not receive a single penalty kick during the entire 2006 season.
     
  3. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, so I just looked it up. Ruiz has 78 goals, 16 of which are PKs. So he makes the list with 62 goals from the run of play. That is enough to put him ahead of Preki (79-23=56) but still behind Raul Diaz Arce (82-13=69)
     
  4. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does it really matter if the goal is scored from a PK or run of play?? To me a goal is a goal is a goal. It goes on the scoreboard the same. Also it is not a guaranteed goal just ask Joseph, Heaps, Dempsey and Noonan. I believe that Ruiz has 14 pk goals.
     
  5. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know that this has been a topic of debate, but I happen to value a goal in the run of play over a PK. In any case, I thought it made for an interesting comparison. Obviously MLS doesn't make the distinction so it won't matter to "official" records. But since I'm interested I thought I would appeal for help in digging up the stats.

    BTW, the MLS site lists Ruiz third all-time in PKs with 16 (Moreno 33, Preki 23)
     
  6. Sean Donahue

    Sean Donahue Member

    Aug 31, 2001
    Massachusetts
    Lassiter has 4, Twellman has 3.
     
  7. Kevin8833

    Kevin8833 Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Estero, FL
    I think this thread is a great idea, somebody can score a goal off a pk having nothing to do with the play involved, someone who can score in the run of play is far more valuable pretty much any pro will score on a pk like 90 percent of the time at least.
     
  8. MouseyTongue

    MouseyTongue New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    a box in the Chairma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is the updated list:

    98 Kreis
    92 *Razov
    84 Lassiter
    83 *Twellman
    82 *Cunningham
    76 *Moreno
    69 Diaz Arce
    62 *Ruiz
    56 Preki
    (*active)
     
  9. Colonial717

    Colonial717 New Member

    Aug 5, 2004
    Arlington, VA
    Is there a thread with goals scored in all competitions?
     
  10. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Moreno also has 87 career assists. If he comes back for another year, he would have a reasonable shot at being the first 100/100 man.
     
  11. 400lb Gorilla

    400lb Gorilla Member

    Sep 1, 2006
    Missouri
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Am I the only who thinks that the person who takes the penalty kick should be the person who was fouled?
     
  12. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    + 1
     
  13. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    I keep track of this. Top ten through 2006:

    Code:
    1	Moreno, Jaime   	131
    2	Kreis, Jason    	118
    2	Razov, Ante     	118
    4	Lassiter, Roy   	111
    5	Cunningham, Jeff	101
    6	Diaz Arce, Raul 	98
    7	Ruiz, Carlos    	97
    8	Preki           	91
    9	Twellman, Taylor	85
    10	Cerritos, Ronald	80
    I also know that MLSnet has pdfs for the playoffs at the end of each season which lists how many of each type of goal was scored (fk, ck, pk, etc). They've done that for the past couple years.

    There's the all time list of penalties throughout league history in the MLS Facts & Records book. However, there are some issues with their statkeeping. For instance, MLS lists 50 pks for 1996 on their referee section (and on MLSnet). Yet, they list 51 on the penalty kick summary. I was doing some research on this before and I feel that they may have missed a handful of pks, ones that were saved, in their stats. That's why I really don't like to deal with pk stats.
     
  14. Shopping Cart Man

    Sep 21, 2006
    Jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    + 2
     
  15. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -1. I think it's one of the subtle beauties of the game. The PK is awarded to the team (as opposed to the player), just like a free kick.
     
  16. wcharriscpa

    wcharriscpa Member

    Dec 26, 2000
    Austin
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously? We're wanting to adjust the rules to benefit to cheaters? We're now wanting to see even less scoring?

    Player injured/recovering from being foulled.

    And what about handballs in the box? Who is "obligated" to take those?

    The team of the offending player is being punished for their player committing a foul in the box. The team of the offended player should be able to punish. Just as the entire team benefits when an individual puts the ball in the goal. Sheesh.
     
  17. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    But I think that skirts the real question of who deserves the credit. I have always believed it was the guy who suffered the foul more than the guy who scored the PK, since just about anyone who calls himself a pro ought to convert more of those than he misses.
     
  18. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
    If the player is hurt, the opposing captain gets to choose any field player on the fouled team to take it.
    Last attacking player to play the ball.
    I think it's fine the way it is, but I think it would add some flavor if the rule was amended. Rules changes happen in sports, and as they go, this one would be fairly minor. As recently as a couple years ago, the offside rule was amended with a new interpretation of passive offisde, and the extra time rule was changed to eliminate golden goals. In the last 15 years, the rule on backpasses to the keeper was changed, and it it became standard to award 3 points for a win instead of two. Stop acting like it's sacriledge to suggest minor tweaks to the rules to benefit the drama of the game. It's not like people are asking for the removal of the offside rule here.
     
  19. Benedict XVI

    Benedict XVI Member

    Nov 22, 1999
    Ciudad del Encanto
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are we going to start making the player who gets fouled take free kicks, too?

    It's a pointless change.
     
  20. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
    I don't think making the fouled player take all free kicks adds any excitement to the game - in fact, I think it would decrease the excitement of a well-positioned free kick. But on a PK, it would add an element of excitement to what is, when you get right down to it, one of the least exciting moments in sports, since it's basically a foregone conclusion. The only time a penalty is exciting is the rare times that one is saved, or if it comes at the end of an important game.

    Basically, I think the penalty shot in soccer is the absolute worst part of the game, and anything to increase the interest by giving the keeper more of a chance would make it more interesting. In hockey, the penalty shot is considered the most exciting play in the game. A big part of that is because the goalie actually has a chance. (only about 35% of penalties are converted) In soccer, the shot has little drama.

    And I don't buy the idea that it would decrease scoring. Perhaps if the shot wasn't such a damn gimme, refs would be more willing to call fouls in the box than they are now. I'd also support replacing the PK with the old MLS Shootout-style dribble-in, but that would be a really tough sell to purists.
     
  21. wcharriscpa

    wcharriscpa Member

    Dec 26, 2000
    Austin
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:

    Here endeth the thread.
     
  22. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA

    you're welcome
     
  23. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would love to see a list of goals scored by:

    Penalties
    Set Pieces
    Garbage goals
    Off assists from other players
    Unassisted
     
  24. GutBomb

    GutBomb Red Card

    Aug 28, 2003
    Outside Boston
    I agree. That's the way penalty shots are taken in hockey, and it's more of an "in game" skill than the farce that penalties are.

    But I know people are gonna bitch at me for wanting to change... I don;t want to change, but if that change was implemented I would support it.

    With that system I would have no problem classifying PKs as goals, but the current system I just have a hard time giving a goal scored from a spot kick the same amount of credit as a goal kicked from the run of play.
     
  25. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I say leave the PK alone, but have two goalies for the kick instead of one.;)
     

Share This Page