MLS Bias

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Dan Kohner, Jan 29, 2025.

  1. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember once crunching the numbers and finding that it was literally impossible for MLS to overtake Costa Rica in the IFFHS ranking even if MLS swept every non-MLS opponent in the CCC and Costa Rican clubs lost every game in international competition, just because Costa Rican clubs played so many domestic matches and the big clubs had much better domestic records.
     
    deejay and gogorath repped this.
  2. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    So, it's that stupid Apertura+Clausura system. No wonder Argentina is also ranked so high.
     
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    The vast majority of MLS players aren’t being called up. And Musah’s poor season is compounded by him skipping the Gold Cup. I’m not surprised if Poch looks else for his spot, including MLS.
     
    Mahtzo1 repped this.
  4. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't it only use the points from the top 5 teams of a league for the league rankings? So if the #6 team in MLS goes on a run and wins CONCACAF Champions Cup, it's not counted at all. And it adds the points that the top teams gain in the domestic league/cup/playoffs. Somehow the points that the top teams in a league accumulate in their domestic competitions tell us something about how good that league is compared to other leagues.
     
    Elninho repped this.
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The system makes no logical sense. It’s not like the UEFA coefficients, which do in fact do a solid jobs with the top clubs, but tell us nothing about the rest of the clubs. That system is flawed, but not garbage. Same with ELO and the FIFA system…flawed, but not garbage.

    The IFFHS system is just garbage…might as well rank clubs by multiplying how many teams wear blue times teams that wear red times teams that wear yellow. Or how many letters are in the names of the first and last place teams in the league.
     
    Elninho, deejay and Thundering165 repped this.
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only because Pat was injured. Remember, he had hernia surgery.

    When they were both available Agyemang was the starter.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  7. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    Bad news guys, San Diego got smashed by Pumas as befitting the 40th place league in the world.

    Oh wait, looks like I got that backwards
     
    Mahtzo1, WrmBrnr and gogorath repped this.
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Of course, Pumas wasn't particularly good in the Apertura. :)

    As far as any of the league/club rankings discussions, its all fraught with difficulty. The only way you can evalutae is if teams play each other.

    I have idea how any of these ranking or analytics companies would measure MLS versus a European league. They never play each other in games that matter. Yes, an MLS club would play an elite Europenan club in the Club World Cup. Seattle lost to PSG 2-0 and Athletico Madrid 3-1. So what does that tell us? That Seattle isn't as good as PSG and Athletico Madrid. That's true of 98% of the clubs in the World. We already knew that. Those results don't tell us anything about how Seattle would fare against the 10th best team in Ligue 1, for instance.

    How does Opta rank MLS better than the Polish Ekstraklasa? Hell if I know. its based on analyticas, but none that make any sense.

    By the way, Opta has the Eredivisie way down in 16th. So if you're just evaluating forwards based on those types of rankings, you'd wonder why Ricardo Pepi's goals are better than Brian White's goals. You wouldn't.

    By the way, there's something to that. Ricardo Pepi hasn't scored a goal in the Eredivisie this season against one of the top 8 teams. [At least that was true weeks ago.] He scores against bad teams in the Eredivisie this season, and those teams may in fact be worse than MLS teams. Do I know that for sure? No. No way of knowing that.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's a pretty typical model with the core of it being head to head matches between teams. It makes a whole lot of sense, and it basically works on the same principles as almost any ranking system currently formulated out there in pretty much any sport. I

    The benefit of a system like this is that it's incorporating all the results.

    The problem with Opta's model is that there's just not a very large sample between many of the leagues. Particularly between the Americas and Europe. I forget how it fills it in; I don't think they do the transfermarkt thing that SPI did.

    But MLS did play European teams in the CWC. And MLS did play LigaMX a lot and LigaMX also played European teams. And those European teams played other European teams. And so on.

    But either way, the less leagues interact, the less accurate the model is.

    The ranking isn't materially different than #6 on the list. Or MLS. Or #25. The Eredivisie will jump up and down because all those leagues are really close.

    You shouldn't count Pepi's league play as harder than Brian White's, though. In fact, given how talented PSV is, you should probably go the other way.

    Of course, you shouldn't solely evaluate either player that way.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its also just the USMNT coach's job to call the guys up regardless of league and see who fits his system best.

    This whole league stuff can be kind of irrelevant outside of the obvious.
    We may have La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc. players not make the roster while MLS players do. So what? Yes.........Pochettino may prefer Arfsten in this 3-4-3 to Kristoffer Lund. And?

    Or maybe he wants a forward with a different skill set on his bench like Agyemang to one of the others like Wright or Pepi? Who the hell knows if he will or not.

    One thing I believe is he doesn't make this decision based on which league is higher in some ranking. :)
     
  11. NOS Football• Saturday 30 August 2025, 21:52 Sensational Telstar puts national champion PSV on the rack in Eindhoven: 0-2 2:07 Watch the summary of PSV - Telstar
    PSV has suffered its first defeat of the season in the Eredivisie. Telstar, who played freely and freely, stunted in Eindhoven by beating the national champion 2-0. There was nothing to be said about the victory of the club from Velsen-Zuid. Telstar had come to Eindhoven with their sleeves rolled up and won the victory in a well-deserved way.
    upload_2026-2-4_20-48-18.png
     
  12. Better include the goals scored to look at his numbers when playing for FC Groningen.
     
  13. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol yeah sure.....MLS is totally maxed out at its ceiling of performance

    this is as good as it gets
     
  14. Oh, by the way.
    No scout nor club management uses ranking of leagues by any organization as a means to assess a player, established or talent.
    If that wouldnot be the case, clubs like Barcelona wouldnot put scouts in the stands of our second tier to watch certain players, as the iirc director of Barcelona mentioned in an interview.
    Rankings are made for public consumption.
     
    song219, Thundering165 and jaykoz3 repped this.
  15. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

    Jun 20, 2007
    Home
    I thought it was an undeniable fact that he decides what Don Garber tells him to decide.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're misreading, and I suspect you're misreading intentionally. It's more an illustration of how bonkers the IFFHS ranking methodology is. If MLS is so dominant in CONCACAF that MLS clubs win every single game against non-MLS opposition, and Costa Rican clubs lose every game in the CCC, IFFHS would still rank MLS below Costa Rica as per the formula stated on its website.
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  17. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rankings also put the Nicaraguan league as 4th best in CONCACAF, ahead of the likes of Honduras and Panama. Nicaraguan clubs have won a total of two matches in CONCACAF Champions Cup in the last 30 years.
     
    tomásbernal and Elninho repped this.
  18. GoodHands

    GoodHands Member+

    AC Milan
    United States
    Jul 17, 2024
    I do not think that league ratings are ever pertinent to player discussions. However there ae leagues that are easier to excel in so the players that are the in best of leagues can be effectively compared if and only if we look at the best players.

    It is also well to remember that there are a number of players that excel in league play that are really poor when playing international soccer and there are some, although fewer, that are the other way around.

    I believe that is why our current coach has called so many players to camps and played most of them. He is NOT looking for the best club players he is looking for those that play international soccer the best and those may or may not be from the best leagues.
    We are also seeing the same in the USWNT and their improvement is really a marked one. It simply is taking longer for the process to show effect in the USMNT. They started from a relatively lower position on their world stage.

    For now, and on a continuing basis, I trust our coach and the process, at least until it proves otherwise.

    I do not think the debate about which league is superior or relative rankings of leagues have any merit. For all I care MLS could be ranked 50 and EPL ranked 1 or the other way around.
    Players need to be evaluated on their own merits and which league they play in should play no part.
     
    Elninho and Allez RSL repped this.
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s not what he was saying lol

    He’s talking about how stupid the IFFHS system is, that not even an unbeaten record would out MLS ahead.
     
    Thundering165 repped this.
  20. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    I don’t think any club takes external rankings very seriously.

    I know for a fact that the big clubs have internal algorithms that rank leagues in order to project how talent might move between them. Talent can be found anywhere, but being comfortable with making a deal requires a lot more information.
     
  21. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The 40th ranked league in the world sent a 20 year old player to the 3rd best team in La Liga and made his debut already after arriving a few days ago in Spain. Esmir Bajraktarevic, another player developed by the 40th ranked league in the world, with a brace for PSV. Did these clubs not get the memo that MLS is ranked 40th by IFFHS, that Costa Rica league is better and thus with more talent and that even Cyprus has better development?
     
    tomásbernal repped this.
  22. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He probably said it in another thread, but @adam tash has also complained that MLS is conspiring to prevent players from moving to Europe. So that makes it even more awkward.
     
    STR1 repped this.
  23. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    They all are just walking contradictions.
     
  24. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
    gogorath and deejay repped this.
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Yeah, but he's not American so he doesn't count"--Adam Tash, probably.
     

Share This Page