MLS Bias

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Dan Kohner, Jan 29, 2025.

  1. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    Maybe I should clarify a bit better, because you’re right, and you know better than me. I would argue that Classic falls under “higher quality opposition in a paid league”.
     
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  2. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    My mistake I should have said "make" instead of play so you could understand what I am saying.

    https://projectplay.org/youth-sports/facts/challenges

    And here is Landon Donovan. Long interview but a part of it he talks about the issues with youth soccer in the US

     
  3. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And that actually shows the difference. Barcelona's residency academy costs $75,000 a year. They did not get involved in American youth soccer to discover or develop the American Lamine Yamal. They are getting involved in American soccer because they can squeeze money out of parents in the US in the way they could not in Europe. It is not like Red Bull or the City Group where they have reasons to try to unearth talent in the US.
     
  4. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    All of this is true which is why I said in a perfect World. And I do not expect it to change ever. But it will be a disadvantage for us in the World's game.
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Unless you've actually well defined the data set to a known, clean data source, it's probably not. It's pulling from the internet, and it has no fact checking capability.

    Worse, AI tends to make things up when it can't find an actual answer. It's literally made up specific things like court cases and cited them; it's going to have no issues creating data out fo nowhere for your "factual" pull.

    It demonstrates a complete lack of critical thinking to simply abdicate thinking to a computer program that has a history of factual inaccuracy, but I doubt you care about that as long as it backs up your argument, right?
     
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  6. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh


    Tom Byer reiterates what really makes the difference in the USA (it’s not pay to play)
     
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  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I’m repeating myself, but to me, a major, major difference is that the dad coaches working with 7 year olds in Raleigh completely suck compared to the dad coaches in London or Milan or Buenos Aires. I think that’s why a disproportionate number of our best technical players had professional dads (Puli, Gio), or grew up outside America (Balogun, Dest).

    I’d argue it’s THE major difference, the other being the lack of population density leading to significant barriers when it comes to matching elite players with elite coaches playing against other elite players with elite coaches.

    IOW, we can’t microwave this to speed it up. It takes time for that soccer knowledge to permeate a society.
     
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  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know that I got much better coaching than I otherwise would have because my dad is Peruvian and breathed the game growing up. Passing and shooting techniques, trapping long balls, how to move, what to look for were all things that I learned that most kids around me only learned by their parents paying boatloads of money at private soccer clubs for better coaching (and actual training) than the YMCA-equivalents provided (which was mostly baseball or basketball dads that were willing to take the role of soccer coach for their own kids). My dad was not anywhere near any professional anything, ever, but he still has a ton more knowledge of the game than most of the actual coaches that were around in my youth. I'm a firm believer that we'll win a World Cup when we've got a lot more "not anywhere close to professional but live for soccer" dads in this country. And it's happening as we speak, but will probably still be a generation away from giving its fruit.
     
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  9. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Out talent pool is shrunk massively due to the fact that good coaching is unreachable for the vast majority of youth. Some of it is that the “dad coaching” is highly variable, for sure. But the Dutch system ensures that good coaching is available to every player for about 300-400/year (with discounts for those that need it). It is funded with government support as well as the KNVB (Dutch soccer federation) to ensure that licensing and coach training is accessible and nearly free.
     
  10. Uhm, forgot to put in the link:
    https://www.quotenet.nl/sport/a3334...rdam-krijgt-bijna-euro130000-van-de-overheid/
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Agree.
     
  12. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I think MLS academies does well with the player pool they are given. The issue is the player pool they pick from is not as varied as it could be. And is difficult for the near elite to stay involved in the game unless they have well to do parents.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #2538 Clint Eastwood, Apr 6, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2026
    I'm with Tom Byer on this.

    Culture eats strategy for lunch.

    When I read thru this thread of all the "problems" with the USMNT, there are two things that spring to mind.

    1) Don't Italy have that?

    2) We've made it to the knockout rounds in 4 of the last 6 World Cups. We're not China or India for Heaven's sake. Folks should make a list of the nations that have made the knockout rounds in 4 of the last 6 World Cups.

    We just have to keep building and investing, building and investing domestically. We're seeing all sorts of young players emerge thru MLS and the USL right now. Lots to be excited about. We just have to keep growing that list of "lottery tickets." What it would take to get us to Spain's level is more Pulisic, McKennie, Adams level players. More and more. And then if you really want to compete with Spain, you need guys that will compete for Ballon d'Ors. You need a Yamal or Mbappe to emerge from that group. That's sort on undefinable magic that comes from the universe. You need a Messi to emerge. I don't care HOW MUCH we address everything folks are saying in this thread, there's some sort of cosmic magic that generates a couple of players each generation.

    There are two things.

    1) Much of the fanbase has a crippling inferiority complex.
    2) Much of the fanbase feels a variation of Manifest Destiny. As if the US has some sort of inalienable right to be an elite national team in soccer.

    People talk about how we're crap at developing players. Meanwhile, I'm watching MLS and see Peyton Miller, Zavier Gozo, Niko Tsakiris, Julian Hall, Adri Mehmeti, etc. excelling. Not just holding their own but excelling.

    There is no magical formula. Just keep building and investing. How do you build culture? Time.
     
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  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno. I think it’s fair to compare MLS’ improvement this century to the USMNT’s comparatively minor improvement.
     
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  15. This!!!

    And then this hurdle
     
  16. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    While MLS has improved in leaps and bounds as a league, its improvement in the American sports milieu has been a little more measured. I think that’s why the USMNT’s improvement has been more modest.

    If 50% of sports watching Americans started seriously following soccer, I think in a generation you’d see a much bigger improvement
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure.....................to me they are two separate questions.

    An international team is only the top 30 (or so) players in a pool.

    MLS can develop hundreds of guys that "play in Europe." Italy has guys that play in Europe. Obviously. Hundreds of them.

    To be one of those elite national teams, your domestic league has to churn our STARS generation after generation. Not just good players, we're talking contenders for the Ballon d"or like Argentina, Spain, France do.

    Whether Morocco can stay at this elite level they're at will be determined by whether the next generations are as elite. Are there more Hachimi's in the pipeline? Maybe there are based on how their youth teams are doing. [Of course, 50% of Morocco's team wasn't born in Morocco. They're dual-national masters.] Whether Croatia stays where they are will be determined by whether they have more Modric's in the pipeline. In my view, he's the best central midfielder of the generation.

    So we need more Adams, Pulisic, McKennie, Richards, etc. players. Keep building up that base of talent. And then we need some real elite, difference makers. Generation after generation. You need Xavi and Iniesta and Fabregas and Casillas and all these guys...............and follow them up with Yamal, and Rodri and Zubimendi and on and on.

    The assembly line has to roll and roll and roll.

    That's culture.
     
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  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2543 adam tash, Apr 8, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2026
    a rolling assembyline isnt culture. how typical of an american to think so

    usmnt problem isnt skill. us players are PLENTY skilled enough

    culture is HOW you play...AND how you play TOGETHER

    watch uruguay or argentina....they understand the game COLLECTIVELY...they work together on a collective level MENTALLY....well-coordinated as one unit, despite being 11 people

    americans - who value rugged individualism...and judge everyone as individuals are simply incapable of this level of synchronicty

    how do you fix this? idk exactly

    but it isnt about producing talent....its the type of talent not the level of players

    usmnt players in eruope do well because they have a specific well-defined role that they are capable of fulflling ......they are just 1 puzzle piece and the rest of the puzzle fits well

    whereas usmnt play is not that....its much less structured and its much more important for players to be able to "freestyle" and not simply play within a dictated role, like in club soccer....and without chemistry and repeated reps with the same teammates, its also very difficult to get it right
     
  19. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Teaching the game as successive number up numbers down situations instead of 11 successive 1v1s would be a good start.

    But we are still technically weak. Look at our 1st touches against belgium and portugal. Look at the number of times we try to pass > 10 yards and it's short/wide/too heavy to be handled cleanly. Look at the players who can't use their left foot for anything other than running after the turnover because they force the pass with their right foot that was only there if they had been able to use their left.

    It's better, but not there yet.
     
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  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the only difference i saw in the belgium portugal games was idiotic team defending

    you have 6 defenders converging together and letting the 3d attacker score wide open

    or all 9 defenders on a corner covering the 6 yard box

    and the central mids/defense not covering anything at the edge of the box and beyond....

    of the 7 goals against, almost every one was on that.

    when i watch the goals and plays the usmnt players make in europe for clubs - like baloguns ridiculous chip this week.....its really not an issue of technical weakness imho
     
  21. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Individual ability is extremely important. At the highest levels, some of the qualities that are most valued are dribbling, midfielders being press resistant, defenders that can defend 1 on 1, etc. But the key is developing the individual so they can help the collective.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LAFC with an American soccer showcase today.
     
  23. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with the comments in here about culture. I like the framing of "more dads who are great teachers make more great soccer players." If the goal is to produce better soccer-playing kids, we should focus on producing more soccer-teaching dads.

    I would think there are 2 main ways of producing soccer-teaching dads:
    1. Have more dads who played competitive soccer growing up
    2. Have more dads who didn't play soccer, but watch a lot of it, to the point where they'd want their kid to play it even though they didn't

    I could be wrong, but I don't see the number of kids playing soccer change that much in different studies, meaning strategy #1 isn't leading to much growth. What I do see is a lot more people watching soccer.

    NBC started broadcasting the premier league broadly in the US in 2013. Likewise, MLS has roughly doubled in size since 2010, and grown exceptionally in quality and popularity (although I think we would all agree that EPL interest is by far the biggest driver in growth).

    That would mean we've probably just completed the first decade of Strategy #2. I have felt that in the past 15 years, soccer has gone from something you got laughed at in school for playing to something exceptionally popular to talk about on college campuses. This shift in attitude has primarily happened in the <30 age group, which is good considering that's right at the age you start to have kids.

    This would imply the following - if a kid was born in 2013 to a dad who got incredibly into the sport by watching the premier league, they would currently be 13 (and slightly too young for anyone to talk about on this board). To me, it would seem a very optimistic but logical conclusion that we should start seeing a jump in depth in ~2030 or so, right when they become the age where they'd start to debut in MLS. And it would only keep increasing after that.

    However, this is dependent on the assumption that Strategy #2 can produce players as much as Strategy #1 can. I think we'd all agree that Strategy #1 would usually produce a better player, but if #2 has a ton more players, it might make a sizable dent.
     
  24. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's some incremental improvement in Strategy #1 even if the number of kids playing soccer hasn't gone up much, in that the quality of soccer that the dad coaches played as kids is rising.

    Also, we're getting more of a combination of the two: dad coaches who played as kids but not necessarily at a high level, then got more insight into the game later in life from improved access to soccer on TV.
     
  25. I've been rading the comments on the soccer culture or the supposed lack of it with interest.
    First of all, I think when so many people play it and follow it, it is a soccer culture, different from for instance in Mexico etc., but definitively a culture, a specific American soccer culture.
    Another thing I was thinking about, is that this culture didnot emerge in a vacuum, it's embedded in the general culture of it's environment.
    So it must be influenced, I think, by the other big American sports culture as part of it's environment.
    What do you see in the American soccer culture, that reminds you of what you recognize from the other big sports?
    Or do you think I'm seeing things that arenot there?
     
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