MLS and the NHL

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Northside Rovers, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -- Brett Hull in the Arizona Republic

    You replace NHL with MLS and you could swear he is talking about soccer.

    I know the MLS / NHL comparisons have been done ad nauseum, but the 3 issues Hull brings up are the 3 things we talk about here every day.

    Now - I grant you MLS has acted and acted positively by increasing the number of SI's and the roster size. But damn they should have done it a year ago. Scoring is down. Fouls are up. Ties are up. And boredom is up. For parts of the season, Chicago and DC were fielding A-League level teams. Kansas City's subs in the MLS Cup were nobodies - in the Championship Game.

    As far as diluted talent goes, I am looking forward to expansion precisley because it will dilute talent. Hopefully the games will open up more. More goals will be scored.

    The general consensus by us riff raff here and vaunted expert columnists was that the level of play in MLS this year stagnated, 2/3 of the games at least stagnated. I'll be honest - I bleed MLS blue and green but damn this season was boring. I plan my whole Saturday around the 3:00 Games of the Day on ESPN2, and after a few weeks I wondered why. I kept watching - but it was not compelling or riveting soccer. The games were 90% lame. The TV production and half-times are lame. I am no talking about Rob Stone or Wynlada - I like them fine. I'm talking the intro music, the stuttering, awkward Lorrie fair, the whole production. MLS Wrap - its velveeta. It is getting better - but too slowly. The music, the highlights. They're still using the satellite shots from Southlake in 2004. Does nobody notice or care about this stuff?

    I bring it up because these games and shows are 90% of the MLS marketing effort and/or budget. Aside from paying to be on TV, MLS spends pennies on marketing. They can't even figure out how to let me spend my money on MLS and market for them. 9 years in and I can't buy an FC Dallas coffee mug. Its been 5 months since tehy announced the damn thing and there is NOTHING available now that wasn't on Day 1. Its Xmas and I can't buy a frigging MLS calendar let alone an FC Dallas calendar. Last year my wife gave me a calendar with pictures of my family on it from Shutterfly. MLSgear.com? Nothing. They still want $60 for a jersey they were selling for $5 at the last game of the season.

    LA wins one game in 10 and then qualifies for the playoffs with 2 weeks to go. Dallas wins one game in its last 7, losing 5 and goes to the final game of the season before being eliminated. Why watch? 8 of 10, 8 of 12. Basic supply and demand. When you don't have to work very hard to get something, guess what, over time, you're not going to work as hard to get it.

    Obviously MLS has made strides this year. Huge strides. Expansion, new owners, stadiums and the adidas deal. But this other stuff matters too and is much easier and cheaper to fix. And it hasn't changed in years. I keep wondering why?

    Who is in charge of the ESPN2 productions and why hasn't it improved much?
    What embecile is in charge of MLS gear? I know they signed a deal with some apparel firm a few months back - how hard is to sew a logo and a gawd damm polo shirt in time for frigging XMAS?

    MLS has been around too long to allow this stuff to suck for so long. It re-inforces the perception of those who follow soccer in general that MLS is low level stuff.

    So much for my half-thought out rant
     
  2. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. I, too, have been amazed at the inability to buy MLS merch.
     
  3. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    You can't compare the 1st rate ESPN hockey production at the amateurs broadcasts of MLS. NHL's announcers like Gary Thorne, Mike Emrick, John Davidson, Bill Clement, Steve Levy, Brian Engblom, Darren Pang and Barry Melrose are superb. By contrast, Stoner is a zero.

    BTW, I like Lorrie Fair but can't someone glam her up a bit? Look at Michelle Tafoya on MNF. She's got hair, make-up and all that crap in place. Lorrie looks like she's going to a GLAAD meeting.
     
  4. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well put, my sentiments as well.

    Hell, right now on the MLS home page, they have a click through featuring MLS gear. If you click on the DC United jersey, it takes you to the MLSgear page that guess what? DOESN'T HAVE A DC UNITED JERSEY AVAILABLE!! (not that I'd want one, but thats not the point)

    Incredibly lame.

    Lee
     
  5. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    While I agree with everything you posted, THIS is the most curious. I would have gladly spent enough money over these 10 years to pay for a freakin' SSS. I can appreciate that MLS does not want to market heavily in non-league cities; but hell, throw us a bone....
     
  6. JasonC

    JasonC New Member

    May 21, 2001
    Billings, Mont.
    I can't stand John Davidson. He's the Ty Keough of hockey.
     
  7. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    I don't get it. You're saying that MLS Wrap is shells and cheese? My only major problem with it is that they don't have enough content to fill an hour. Oh, and John Harkes is a really @$%& analyst.
     
  8. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    John Davidson is awesome. Too bad he's stuck with the Rangers. Or he would be.

    I think Gary Thorne would be awesome on soccer broadcasts once he figured out how the game works (assuming he doesn't know know).
     
  9. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Hockey, much to its credit, doesn't have Ty Keoughs.

    But it does Don Cherrys.
     
  10. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Your point here is valid, but Rule One of calling someone an imbecile in print is to spell imbecile correctly. Otherwise, you might end up looking like, well, an imbecile!
     
  11. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Touche.
     
  12. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    No, that's the right spelling. Actually, he was describing the people as like those who have suffered a brain embolism.

    When the Krafts ran the San Jose Earthquakes, they had a physical store with plenty of fine merchendise. My Rikter beany baby still sits on top of my computer. Maybe the local teams should do more in this regard, and then have MLSNet buy from them.
     
  13. MRschizoid21

    MRschizoid21 Member

    Nov 5, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not? He's great!

    And Gary Thorne is probably the best and most versatile announcer there is (baseball, hockey, college football). Doesn't matter what sport.
     
  14. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Kevin Payne claims that part should get better when Adidas goes league-wide, and given the money they're spending, I tend to believe him.

    . . . and they could just be busily sewing fourth stars on the DCU jerseys ;)

    Now, to address the on-field concerns. . .
     
  15. PZ

    PZ Member

    Apr 11, 1999
    Michiana
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The merchandise comments are classic of what's wrong with the league. Here we are in the middle of the busiest time for all retail and there is no MLS merchandise available. For many retail stores, 80% of their sales are done the 6 weeks between T-giving and X-mas. MLS fans may be a small segment of the US population, but there is still plenty of money that could be made over the next few weeks if they had merchandise available. Season review DVDs and stuff like that would be a gimme. Would it hurt them to have next seasons jersey released in December to cash in on early buyers? Whomever is in charge of MLS merchandise really isn't trying.
     
  16. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That's what MLS needs.
     
  17. churchill2000

    churchill2000 3x MLS Cup Champions

    Jul 12, 2004
    Monde Virtuel
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy

    Well in defense of the MLS, how interesting can MLS get when there are only 10 teams, and have them play 30 games against the same 9 teams?

    So I agree with you that the only good thing going, is the expansion teams who make it a bit more interesting.

    A real problem that I see contributing to the boredom is that MLS coaches are regurgitated within the league, MLS needs New Blood with reference to coaches, something the expansion teams failed to do.
     
  18. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or is working on a shoestring...
     
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wish MLS would quit trying to fake being Major League, frankly. So much of their 'productions' are fake-storefront quality, doing a low-budget version of the real thing. Like the set of MLS Wrap (which I watch religiously, of course). All those TVs and so forth just remind you of how low-budget the set is compared to an ESPN set. So why try? Why not go low-fi, so to speak? It's more honest. And you look foolish pretending it's a big production when any moron can see it isn't.
     
  20. crusio

    crusio New Member

    May 10, 2004
    Princeton
    MLS is all about trying to be something they are not. They seem to want to skip right through growing up stage and go right to the big time. It doesn't work. And by doing so, they're focus is taken away from growing the sport. ​
    One example... MLS rents giant oversized stadia. Then, every week are forced to corral as many warm bodies as they can to purchase tickets that pay for these huge venues. They are not building fan bases. They are just selling tickets to pay the bills. In the process turning off would be fans that turn up for a professional sports event, only find a scene akin to a Wonderama audience. ​
    Start small, build a loyal following and grow the sport. Don't back yourself into a corner. ​
    MLS should be more true to itself.... In the end, nobody likes a fake.​
     
  21. salmacis

    salmacis Member

    Jun 9, 1999
    Oxford, UK
    Scoring is down, but that's maybe the sign of a mature league. How does this year's scoring rate compare to England, Germany, Italy or Mexico? For that matter how does the proportion of ties compare?

    If there's one thing that is guaranteed to produce bad football, it's the MLS playoff system. I know it's been done to death, but there really is very little incentive to play hard in the regular season. There's also more incentive to play defensively.

    If Arsenal go to (say) Blackburn and get a draw, that's a bad result if Chelsea have gone to Everton and won. Arsenal have just lost 2 points on their immediate rivals, which will have to be made up at some point in the season. In MLS, who cares, they're both going to the playoffs anyway.

    Games where teams aren't all that bothered about winning are usually extremely dull. I've totally given up on England friendlies for that reason.

    I don't think Americans are ready to embrace the single table with no playoffs just yet. I seriously think if only the top two in each division made it then you'd see a lot more urgency to win matches.
     
  22. PZ

    PZ Member

    Apr 11, 1999
    Michiana
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're selling MLS shoes now?? ;)

    Seriously, besides tents at games and the net, there's no where else to buy Galaxy merchandise. They've got 9 years of sales data so to work with so there's no excuse for not knowing what quanties would sell. Look at the selection of player (name and number on the back) t-shirts available. They must be liquidating well.

    On top of that, while the selection of Galaxy merchandise at games isn't bad you can only get the stuff at games. They have a nice store next to the ticket office at the HDC, but find a Galaxy jersey or any Galaxy merchandise in the store. You're more likely to Euro or Mexican jerseys there than any MLS jersey.

    As for merchandise available on the net, you only need a shoestring budget to run that. All you need is space to store the merchandise and someone to fulfill the orders. However, you've got merchandise that's been sitting for several years which they haven't made an effort (discounted price on website or sold to teams at or below price bought at to sell at games) to liquidate. Christmas is a time when retail can take advantage of people wanting to buy in order to free up more 'buy' money for the new season.

    Basically, there are a lot of things from my perspective that could be done to make sure that a decent selection of merchandise is available to those wanting to spend money...they don't. Merchandise seems to be run in a manner which avoids losing as much money as possible rather than actually as a profit enterprise.

    Note to forum Mods: Sorry for getting off topic here. Feel free to split into a new thread.
     
  23. salmacis

    salmacis Member

    Jun 9, 1999
    Oxford, UK
    Maybe the problem is that they do know what quantities would sell ... which is why they don't bother producing any merchandise at all?
     
  24. okcomputer

    okcomputer Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    dc
    I totally agree about the boring play. There are too many Hankinsons, Nichols, Ganslers, Schmids and Andrulis' in this league. They play for a 1-0 win every home game and they play for a 0-0 draw on the road. To MLS credit, I think they realize this is a problem. Hankinson and Schmid have all ready been given the pink slip. As others have posted, the problem is with the playoff system. You need to force coaches to try and win every game. I think 4 or 6 teams in the playoffs would fix this problem. Look at Columbus long winning streak, I think they tied like half those games. As for MLS Wrap, Harkes is horrible. Wheelock is fine to me but replace Harkes with Chris Sullivan. I enjoy watching it so much more when he is on there instead of Harkes. Harkes just repeats words constantly and provides little critical analysis of the league. The show takes on the feel of an infommercial when he is on there.
     
  25. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That may be - but the cause of this problem is that 99% of the merchandise looks like CRAP
     

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