Yeah, I also think Earnie Stewart is going to do a good job to rebuild them and in a couple of years (or maybe less time) they will be much better on the field. I was trying to round out the bottom, and other than Chicago and Colorado, who else is really poorly run? DC strikes me as a bit shaky, but they will get their new stadium sorted out eventually, and that will be huge for them.
I think we may have differing expectations as to what a ranking should entail. Those aren't criteria, they're talking points. He doesn't tell us how they are measured or how each are weighted relative to the other. Take a peek at the Seattle and NE writeups, explain to me how "have you built your own soccer stadium" might have been applied to each club. Inappropriate? Zero. Its' more about the seat of the pants way he took the answers and arrived at a ranking. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not trying to take the revs off the hook. My point here is that the so-called rankings are a complete trainwreck and don't impart any meaningful way to compare one club to another. It's a puff piece, and not really worthy of the great minds who frequent this forum.
I think those are the main groups to talk about. It is too early to consider the brand new expansion teams, we need to see what they do down the line (this probably relates more to NYC than Orlando who appear to be doing everything right off the field already). Both RSL and Columbus used to be a mess off the field but both have turned things around once their new ownership's took hold. All this off field stuff we are talking about is driven by ownership. KC went from a laughingstock to one of the best run teams (on and off the field) just by getting new owners.
I wonder why the Revs won't answer such a simple question? They are not the only ones though, a small handful of teams would not answer this as well. How many season-ticket holders do you have? How many did you have in 2015? Do not disclose the total number, but have been growing at 25% a year for the past three seasons ==================================================== In 2013, we averaged 14,861. If we take a VERY rough swag that there were 5000 season tickets in that year, that means we could be roughly around 9700 season tickets now. That number seems a little high to me so I wonder if the 5000 is too big a base to speculate from....
As long as they're playing in the Gillette cavern, there will be no pressure to buy season tix. So, based on that, I think our number -whatever it may me- is respectable, relatively speaking.
1. Who needed Grant Wahl to write an article to wonder about how ambitious the REVs are? Not me. 2. I agree that Grant's analysis wasn't very analytical (not to be redundant...) 3. I'd sure like to understand who are the 65 ish full time staff on the REVs. That number was higher than I expected. The topic seems wide open, as usual, so a NNN view or a KAD view can easily be argued. Pick a few bad or good things and fluff them up to suit your argument. My, admittedly NNN, view is that I don't see the Krafts/REVs as being innovative or thought leaders in really anything in MLS. Of course they are so locked down on releasing information that we have no way to know.
I am not sure which of these are considered full time and which really work for the Pats but here is a list of 85+ names about the Revs staffing from the teams web site. http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/club/club-staff
There were also 12 more people who have "significant" Revolution responsibilities, even though they work for Kraft Soccer Inc. Yes, I too, would be very curious to learn what all those people with Revs-specific jobs do.
I don't know, most of the answers were pretty positive IMO. And "ambition" is really about "intent", not necessarily results, right? So, Toronto gets points for "trying" to get better on the field, but not being successful, while the Revs don't for "trying" (and not succeeding yet) to get a stadium built? ------ The Revs are coming off their 2nd best attendance year ever - and their 5th straight year of attendance increases. Since they announced at the welcome event that season tickets were up another %20 over last year, they seem to have an excellent chance of having their best attendance ever (and without inflating it with special events as typically happened in the early years)! Of course, that probably has nothing to do with ambition.
Really? That's your comparison? Did Toronto say they were "trying" to improve their roster, all the while keeping the roster intact for 12 straight years? Or, did they go out and get world class players like Michael Bradley, Jozy Altidore and reigning MLS MVP Sebastian Giovinco? Tangible evidence versus empty words. Huge difference. You really are Charlie Brown, convining yourself that Lucy really means it this time when she says she won't pull the ball away.
For the record, the maximum budget charge in 2015 was $436,250. Juan made $4ook base, $427.5K guaranteed. No allocation money needed there. JoGo, on the other hand, made $479,375 guaranteed, requiring allocation money of $43,125 to buy down. MBC in 2016 is $457,500.
Sorry I usually agree but have to weigh in here. Altidore and Bradley are not world class players. They are "national class" or top American players. Giovinco is class. However, rkupp's point is well taken - of you have the money you can sign Giovinco, Kaka, Drogba, Lamps, Dempsey but the revs still have seen better on field results than all of those teams (apart from Seattle) while spending less. I fail to see why they should be penalized for better on field results while spending less money to get there than other clubs who haven't sniffed a MLS Cup final let alone 5 (or the playoffs in TFC's case).
Appreciate the salary details, thank you. However, if you can get a complementary player for $427.5k instead of paying $800k - $1.2m (using Andy's figures), wouldn't you consider that good business? In my boot strapped startup world it would - I know my boss would be psyched! It seems like Wahl would give the revs more kudos if they were crappier negotiators. We got a guy for $1.2m, he is only worth a third of that but oh the Krafts spent more of their own money so Juan Agudelo could buy a bigger house. Overpaying for talent is apparently a sign of overall ambition for the revs. It's basically the opposite of how good business works.
You are moving the goalposts here. rkupp wasn't comparing TFC roster moves to the Revs roster moves, he was comparing them to the Revs attempts to build a new stadium. BTW, TFC did make the playoffs last year, so they went just as far as the Revs did.
Agree with you there. I was just pointing out the numbers. However, I think his point was that "the right" $800K - $1.2M player would be a difference maker. Juan was not a difference maker last year.
Ah ok moving goal posts. So making the playoffs one time in your entire existence is no different than 6 playoff appearances, 2 cup finals and a USOC title in the same period. Of course.
No, that's not what I said, either. Just that in a few posts you've stated that TOR never made the playoffs, which is no longer true.
Fair point - I stand corrected on TFC. This is a good example of the delta between ambition and results. They indeed got as far as the revs last year - spending $22.1m in salary, the most in MLS last year. The revs spent $6,566,089.61 on guaranteed salary in 2015. Pretend you were a MLS owner and guaranteed your team would get to the first round of MLS Cup playoffs. You were then given the choice to spend $22.1m on salary or $6.56m on salary, with the end result on field being the same. What would you do?
The question is meaningless with out understanding why TFC spent the money. TFC are a very small piece of a ginormous media play by Rogers Communications. Their very first task was to raise the profile of TFC which they have done very well. That was a direct lead in to expanding the stadium and getting the Argonauts as tenants. They are not ignoring on the field results but they are not counting penny's either since the goal of TFC is not specifically to make money in the short term. Rogers has a very long game planned and MLSE are a piece of that game and TFC are a piece of MLSE. The Revs have one goal as an organization, do not lose money. That is their entire frame work. They are impossible to compare to other teams like TFC who are involved in financial plays that are beyond the scope of MLS.
You are comparing a player that struggles to start with a top player? Agudelo is a nice complimentary piece, not a difference maker. The goal when spending in the 800k to 1.2m range would be to get a player to make a real on the field difference. When I said complimentary piece, I meant in relation to Jones, not to our bench. That was poor wording on my part. Now we have our answer as to how the Krafts would follow up the signing of Jones. They did nothing. They counted the beans, and decided it was not worth it because they likely would have lost money, which goes against their entire philosophy of running the team.
I think the Revs do an excellent job with ticket sales, but I think much of it has to do with selling the opponents as it does with selling the Revs themselves. I think the Krafts are using the other teams willingness to spend to help out their own gate. Look at some of the biggest attendances last year, they were mostly tied to teams with the bigger name DP's. I don't blame the Krafts for taking advantage of the other teams stars but I also am not sure one could really call that being ambitious. The Krafts are not the only ones who do this in the league but the ones that do are typically in the lower level of ambition compared to their peers in the league.
I guess you could say the TFC's "trying" is more concrete to the naked eye that the Revs "trying". One can look at their stadium and expansion One can look at Giovinco One can look at their incredible training facility Each of those are tangible to people. We have nothing that can be judged on the stadium front. They could be 2 days away from announcing it, or it could be 5 years away. We have nothing tangible to judge, and maybe that is one reason why non biased people like Wahl give more credit to TFC than to NE for ambition.
So, over at dictionary.com this is the first definition for ambition: ambition 1. an earnest desire for some type of achievementor distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth,and the willingness to strive for its attainment Bolding is mine. We can argue til we die what "striving" is but I don't see much external evidence, over the Becham era defined earlier, that they strive to: Win the SSS Qualify for Champions league Win the US Open Cup Sign big name DPs Secure a SSS Grow attendance to Seattle level (they have the room for it!) They seem largely to live by the rule, "a rising tide lifts all boats."