MISL Attendance 2012-2013

Discussion in 'Pro Indoor Soccer' started by kenntomasch, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Redhawk1

    Redhawk1 Member

    May 12, 2006
    Did anyone out there go to the Wichita game last night? On the webcast, the arena appeared about 90% full, but they listed only 2,643. They've listed about the same for every game this season, but tonight's game looked pretty full, expect for the 1 section in the corner. Just curious what's going on there.

    In general though, with the exception of Chicago, the league has been drawing pretty good all year. With the stretch run here in February, hopefully crowds will continue to be strong. Dates are important, so we'll see how KC does with 3 of their last 4 home games on Sunday afternoon. Their Friday & Saturday dates have did very well this year, but Sunday dates have been a problem. 5 home dates in 4 straight weekends isn't exactly an easy sell, but their home schedule in general isn't nearly a bad as Chicago's.

    It's also been nice to see attendance in Milwaukee pick up a bit this year. The Wave is averaging 4598 with 3 home games remaining (1 Saturday and 2 Sundays)....they finished with an average of 3955 last season.

    Rochester continues to do well in their 2nd year. Down about 100, but 5574 is a very solid number. Their crowd of over 10,000 last weekend was very impressive, and would have been equally impressive 20 years ago.

    Syracuse is also up 500 fans from last year...while Baltimore and Wichita and down a bit. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Baltimore have some big gates coming up. Last year, their last 2 home games drew a combined 17,000-plus. They have 2 Saturday dates to finish this season, so expect a strong finish there.

    Last year, the MISL finished with an averaged of 4005 fas per game. Right now, the league is at 3890, so not far off. Hopefully the final few weeks will raise the league averge to over 4,000 again this season.

    In the PASL Pro, the Dallas Sidekicks are averaging 4996 for 6 dates.....while the Sockers are averaging 3607 for 7 dates, which is a significant increase of about 1400 from last year.

    The PASL Pro is averaging 919 fas per game, up from 656 last season. 4 teams are averaging between 1000-1800....However, 13 of their 19 teams are averaging less than 500 fans per game.

    I guess the debate could be held about which teams should be playing in which league, but that might be a lost cause. With only 1 legit team on the West Coast, it makes no sense for San Diego to join the MISL until a 2nd and 3rd team are in the league as well. Dallas needs to be in the MISL regardless.
     
  2. Blastnut2

    Blastnut2 Member

    Feb 25, 2008
    Well, I guess it depends on the spin you want to put on the numbers. From my view, while Milwaukee, Missouri and Syracuse are up from last year's bare subsistence numbers, the rest of the league is down in average per date, with Chicago down 50% off of Norfolk's numbers per date last year. IMO, while the extra home game is driving additional revenue into Milwaukee, Missouri and Syracuse, the rest of the league is going to finish with about the same number in total attendance, just spread out over an additional date. All the extra home game has done is make teams accept bad dates and times, increase travel and venue expenses in dollars and in macro, not increased revenue at all. If every team this year could have ditched their worst date and worked with one less home and one less away game, they would be better served.
     
    Joey Tee repped this.
  3. Joey Tee

    Joey Tee Member

    Newcastle United
    United States
    Apr 12, 2010
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    .

    Dallas needs to be in the MISL regardless.[/quote]

    thanks Brian
     
  4. bbwavefan

    bbwavefan Member

    Oct 27, 2006
    Milwaukee, WI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rochester is actually up from last year. That 5,574 includes an attendance of 0 for the Jan 1 game because that hasn't been reported on Pointstreak.
     
  5. NSL2004

    NSL2004 Member+

    Jul 23, 2002
    If you can get your time machine to work I'll help them pack and we can all go back to 1984.
     
  6. jgoethe

    jgoethe Member

    Feb 17, 2011
    Club:
    Bristol City FC
    I was at the Wichita game last night. Sitting in my seat, I thought 3000. Seeing a posted 2600 number seems about right. The sections at the open end of the stadium and the corner opposite me on the closed end were pretty sparse. Place holds a little more than 4000 for soccer. 2600 seems right. Actually one of the better crowds we have had this season.

    Might be interesting to some of you that last night was buy one, get one for $1.06, sponsored by a spanish speaking radio station 106.5 "Radio Lobo".

    The last home game is sponsored by a much bigger radio station here, KFDI, FM 101.3. Two tickets for $10.13 or something like that. Wouldn't be hard to expect a sellout if they actually promote on that station.
     
  7. The Stever

    The Stever Member

    Dec 4, 2003
    Buy one, get one for $1.06:
    a) tickets
    b) beers
    c) buckets of tequila :eek:
     
  8. jgoethe

    jgoethe Member

    Feb 17, 2011
    Club:
    Bristol City FC

    My bad... Buy a ticket, get another ticket for $1.06.
     
  9. The Earl of Lemongrab

    May 23, 2012
    Johns Creek, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll take (c) please.
     
  10. NickWISoccer

    NickWISoccer Member

    Apr 26, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    with 3 big draws the wave could end up with a 5000 average, which means they're paying the bills, or at least aren't bleeding out on the money front. this league needs more teams, like twice as many as they have. 7 teams can be a division in a college conference.
     
  11. Joey Tee

    Joey Tee Member

    Newcastle United
    United States
    Apr 12, 2010
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you can add 7 more, but if three of the current 7 are gone in 2013 or 14, then we arent getting traction. Make sure the 7 have their house in order first...if you could say 5 years from now that you have the same 7(which is unlikely given history) think about the rivalries that can be built in that time. Traction is the key word, not expansion...

    With that being said, I think realistically we will see 8 next year, and hope for 10 the year after. 10 has a good ring to it...
     
  12. bbwavefan

    bbwavefan Member

    Oct 27, 2006
    Milwaukee, WI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not going to happen. They would need to average 6,441 over their final 3 homes games, and the last 2 are back-to-back. No way whatsoever. Especially considering the Wave has drawn that number only three times in the past 6 years, and one of those was for an Aaron Rodgers appearance.

    If they average 4,907 over the final 3 home games, which is hopeful but not unrealistic, they would set a new attendance mark since moving back to "The Cell" in 2004.
     
  13. NickWISoccer

    NickWISoccer Member

    Apr 26, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    the cell has a capacity of 9500 i think, so a 4900 average would be slightly over half capacity.
     
  14. Wave Fan

    Wave Fan Member

    Feb 18, 2011
    Club:
    Charlotte Eagles
    After drawing a really nice crowd of 5,321 yesterday it looks like they need around 4,700 for each of the last 2 games to do it and honestly I think they'll make it easily. The teams actually been getting decent amounts of publicity recently with the winning streak and Sue Black hiring. I wouldn't be surprised to see huge crowds on the 2nd & 3rd.
     
  15. PepsiAddict

    PepsiAddict Member

    Dec 30, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Lancers should have a pretty decent crowd on 2/24 when Abby Wambach will be there for autographs (season ticket holders and those purchasing ticket bundles) and pre/mid game events (honorary captain, etc). Shes a huge draw for soccer fans of all intensities in this area ... this was a great get for the final game of the regular season.
     
  16. WPSL

    WPSL Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    Club:
    Cleveland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the last home games for Rochester and Baltimore they both need big crowds to get over 6,000 avg. attendance for the regular season. Rochester needs a crowd over 10,200 and Baltimore needs a crowd over 12,500 to hit 6,000 avg. I have a good feeling about Rochester hitting the 6,000 and Baltimore it's a long shot. It would be nice to see at least two MISL teams hit 6,000 avg. attendance for the season. We have not seen that in a long time. I am happy to see that the MISL avg. attendance has gone up from last year even with Chicago poor attendance thought out the year. Maybe it will help the league fine new owners to put teams in the MISL.
     
  17. bbwavefan

    bbwavefan Member

    Oct 27, 2006
    Milwaukee, WI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pointstreak is still counting Rochesters 1/1 game as a zero. Rochester doesn't need 10K (though they will get that).
     
  18. KidFlash

    KidFlash Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Lancers are already talking sellout, although I'm more than a little dubious of that. Was at the game last night, and they were selling VIP packets (tickets + Abby autograph) for about $35-50. A lot of those would probably go a long way in recouping her appearance fee.

    I do think the announced crowd is probably going to be somewhere close to 10,500, though.
     
  19. WPSL

    WPSL Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    Club:
    Cleveland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MISL teams fulled 48% of it's stadiums capacity this season.
    Missouri 73% of it's 5,800 capacity
    Syracuse 55% of it's 6,195 capacity
    Rochester 51% of it's 11,200 capacity
    Baltimore 48% of it's 11,286 capacity
    Milwaukee 46% of it's 9,500 capacity
    Wichita 44% of it's 6,500 capacity
    Chicago 22% of it's 8,362 capacity

    All teams need to work on filling the stadiums, more then others like Chicago a big city market small crowds. Milwaukee bring one of the power house teams in the league for the last couple of years should have at least over 50% of stadium full, the some for Baltimore. Syracuse having the 2nd smallest capacity I would think it would have at least 60%,... but the attendance has gone up this season. Missouri having the smallest capacity of the league should be in 85-90%. 48% for the MISL not to bad. The overall attendance is up from last season with more games played this year too. The future is bright for the MISL. They're doing it right, playing in smaller arenas. Having more regional teams is the smart way to go for this league. The next big step for the MISL beside more teams is to get back on national T.V. not just Fox Soccer but ESPNs and NBC/NBC Sports. The MISL is one of the best spectator sports to watch. I think since 1978 indoor soccer just had poor marketing in all areas.
     
  20. EnricoSharke

    EnricoSharke Member

    Jun 14, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMHO, you really can't use the word "should" in any of those sentences. Attendance is based far more on the business side than on the playing field. Your numbers were interesting, and I have to admit that given the state of the league a couple of years ago I'm fairly impressed at how well the teams are doing. It's going to take a lot of hard work for these teams to keep inching up their ticket sales. I honestly think big cities like Chicago have the more difficult challenge because of all the competition for the entertainment dollar. I think the future of the sport is in mid-tier cities like Rochester.

    It does appear that all the teams are moving in the right direction. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and the hope is that this set of owners has the resources to stay in the game long enough to be able to find a way to balance the books. Hey, this could possibly be the first year since, how long, that the league will have managed to keep all its teams from one season to the next! I do agree that the owners seem to be doing the "more right" thing. I hope the league avoids jumping the gun and expanding too rapidly. If it were me (and there's probably a very good reason that it's not, but anyway) I'd look to add a single team in the east next year, and go to two four-team divisions, emphasizing the regional play that you remarked on. But that would only be if they could find an owner that made sense for the league.

    I'm also excited to watch the PASL mature and grow. Again, I hope they don't try to hurry the process too much. Yeah, playing before 250 people in a rec center, I don't think that's sustainable, but they've had some definite successes and I'd worry if they changed too fast.

    I love arena soccer, but I really think that it will never be on national network TV again. TV has changed too much. I can't even see them getting a regular spot on a cable channel. I think what will happen is as the internet/TV technologies merge, the kind of webcasts that the league currently provides will become easier to watch on your television, and I'm thinking that's how we'll be watching not just arena soccer, but most sports in ten years.
     
  21. WPSL

    WPSL Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    Club:
    Cleveland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I know the attendance is base on the business side. I think the some of the teams in MISL need to work on that, like I said before! If Chicago has more difficult challenge why is that the city can support not one but two pro hockey teams? The Blackhawks averaging 21,556 a game and at over 100% capacity of it's arena. The Wolves averaging 7,736 a game, they're 2nd in a attendance in the AHL.

    For the T.V. yes it can work. It is all about marketing. Indoor soccer has done a poor job on that side. When the original MISL were on ESPN for the first I saw advertisements for the games and surprise surprise the ratings were higher then the 90's and early 2000's where there we're no advertising at all for the games on T.V. Yes it takes a good business side to make it right, but league itself needs to do better. Come on the NLL is on CBS Sports Network and the MLL is on ESPN. If lacrosse can do it, I think indoor soccer can do it again.

    PASL is not going anywhere, maybe some of the teams like Dallas and San Diego. It is going to stay at the minor/amateur level. Only 7 teams play in professional facilities the rest of the teams play were kids play on a Saturday nights.

    MISL is taking it slow which they should more regional teams cut down on traveling costs. If it takes another 4 to 5 years for the MISL to hit 10-12 teams I say do it. Get the right owners that's not going to fold the team in 1 or 2 years and you'll see this MISL (2008) around in 20 years.
     
  22. spinman

    spinman Member

    Nov 21, 2009
    Kansas City
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Wichita's Hartman Arena doesn't seat 6,500. It's 5,000.
     
  23. EnricoSharke

    EnricoSharke Member

    Jun 14, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are a lot of reasons that hockey is big in Chicago and other northern cities; but in short, I figure this is exactly the kind of competition the Soul is up against. It's not a zero-sum game, but there's only so many entertainment dollars to go around. The nightly sportscast has only so many minutes, and the Hawks (and Bulls and Wolves) are going to get more TV time than the Soul. This is why I think places like Baltimore and Rochester are more the future of the league than the Chicagos or New Yorks. Having said that, I'm not down on the Soul; I think they're doing pretty good considering, and I'm very hopeful they'll be able to grow their fan base and be able to sustain themselves for the long haul (as long as they have the resources to survive the next few years.)

    My comment was specifically about national broadcast networks. I suspect that it's somewhat possible that the MISL might be able to get on "the Ocho" or some other sports network someday, if they work extremely hard. My comment though was less about the MISL and more about how I think sports on TV....all sports....is going to rapidly change. We're already seeing the first wisps of it, the NFL and MLB packages, the video internet streams, the mobile apps that let you watch games. I think this is going to happen to regular TV shows too, but that's a whole other conversation. (And not to be overly negative, but both the NLL and MLL significantly outdraw the MISL.)

    They have their challenges, pretty big ones, but I like some of what they're doing. They're building from the ground up and I hope they can be successful.

    I totally agree. I'm much more optimistic about the long-term prospects of professional arena soccer in general, and the MISL in particular, than I was 2 years ago.
     
  24. The Stever

    The Stever Member

    Dec 4, 2003
    Ummm... I am afraid to ask and respectfully request that you do NOT share your opinion about "long-term prospects" of pro indoor soccer 2 years ago.

    As for NBC Sports, CBS Sports Network, ESPN7, etc... THEY DON'T CARE about indoor and WILL NOT until somebody convinces them that anybody else does!
     
  25. KidFlash

    KidFlash Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    9135. Not a bad crowd, and they kept the length of the Abby stuff at a minimum.
     

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