I reckon that everyone can pretty much agree that when everyone is fit Vieira, Pires and Ljungberg take three of the four midfield spots. Personally, I've not been impressed with Gilberto's performances in the centre of midfield and the question is, who should start in there alongside Vieira?
edu got my vote. it seems like something happens every time he is in the game, and he doesn't just run aimlessly around, nor have a crappy touch like parlour does. now, whether his goals are intentional or flukes (liverpool and chelsea) they are still goals.
Edu gets my vote, like the last poster said something happens when he is in. Perhaps it is luck but atleast it is good luck and not bad.
For me it was a toss up between Edu and Parlour. Reason being is both seem to be able to do the dirty work and move around the field. Parlour though has impressed me slightly more, but the margin was slim.
Edu. Gilberto is inconsistent and can't figure out if he's supposed to go forward or make tackles or what. I think his lateral passing puts us in a rut and prohibits the fast breaks. He's played well, but doesn't he always play better without Vieria? That's a strike against him. Parlour showed the worst of himself today, spraying passes around the field. He does well in possession but lacks any ability to make an incisive pass.
What makes you think Ljungberg, whenever he's not virtually crippled for an extended period of time, is an automatic choice? The words lightweight and one-trick-pony come to mind. As soon as Bergkamp began to decline Ljungberg has ever increasingly become a passenger. Also depending on the opposition, as the legend Tony Adams previously stated, it's virtual suicide to play both Ljungberg and Pires in the same side. It's like gifting the midfield battle to our opponents. The only certainties for me in the midfield our Vieira and Pires (even with his bottling tendencies). The rest of the places are up for grabs as far as im concerned and should be based on who's in form at the time.
It's clear out time for the midfield. We should keep Parlour, Edu and maybe Silva (he was cheap enough to keep as a utility) as back up. We need a new partner for Paddy and 2 new players for the outside attacking roles. Ljungberg and Pires should be sold while they still have decent value; neither is versatile enough to have a role on the bench. If it's got to be a current player with Vieira, Parlour get's my vote with Edu close behind. Edu has a lovely touch, but Parlour's industry and aggression edge it for me. I'd like to see Edu play in the hole behind 2 front men in a 4 3 3 formation, like DB10 used to do. He's not quick enough to play on the flanks.
I have to agree on Ljundberg. He seems to be a shadow of himself. I'd actually be tempted to sit him and play Parlour and Edu. Parlour because he gives the side a grit it doesn't have otherwise and Edu on the strength of his recent performances. If Freddie can pick things up, then he's a solid choice, but I don't think he's been very impressive so far this season and it comes on the heels of a subpar season last year.
It's all about Edu. It was a crime he was on the subs bench today. Has anyone actually been watching him play these past few games? Strong in the middle, doesn't give the ball away nearly as often as Gilberto, doesn't try and crack shots from 40 yards out like Parlour. he even has a nice touch on his passes. All that and he's the most physical Brazilian to come along. He won't back down from anyone and that's a good quality to have in the EPL.
I like Edu, but, can't be quite so unreserved, although I'd start him ahead of Gilberto. He definitely goes in for a tackle, but, he's also frequently muscled of the ball. His positional play can be suspect at times and he's prone to errors; Kiev being case in point. The lack of pace is his major drawback, but, I'd like to see what kind of player he'd be after a solid run in the 1st team. Come on you Gunners!!!
the problem i have with parlour are his passes, which are just shite. that is what gives edu the edge over him for me
Campbell's passing is bloody diabloical, but, I would still start him before Cygan, who is a much cleaner striker of the ball???
I vote for Edu only because he contributes more to the offense. He is subject to the occasional blunder though. GJ40
Interesting thread. Midfield is getting a bit blurry now. I'm a HUGE Freddie fan, but I now have serious concerns about his health/ability. Pires, while certainly still capable of brilliance, often goes missing. Wiltord? Middie or striker? Fish or fowl? Tough to say. DB10? Not sure what role he plays anymore. Parlour? Never been a fan. Edu has shown some signs, I think he should get some more time. Pennant? Last seen on the side of a milk carton. David Bentley? Love to see him get a shot, but not sure where I would put him. Gilberto? Tough, because if he is really doing his job, you won't notice him. Lots of question marks in what a year or so ago was our greatest strength.
Edu for sure, but I'd put Parlour on the right until Freddy shows better form. Or even put Freddy on the left and have Bob take a seat. Edu, Viera, and Parlour is a midfield with bite...which is what we were lacking in last year's collapse.
Don Howe seems to be singing from the same hymn sheet! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3204685.stm We can't keep waiting for Bob and Freddy to get their form back, or for Gilberto to turn into a serious partner/cover for Vieira. I've never seen a Brazilian less confident on the ball. As for being invisible, his constant mistakes means he's anything but! The rest of the team carried them last season and the result was, we ran out of steam! It's a shame, but, it looks like DB10 will finish his last season playing the most ineffective football of his career. I think he still has plenty of talent to offer, but, only with a stronger midfield behind him? Having said all this, it does look possible that we could grind our way to the title. Not too many tough fixtures this winter and the defence is looking much more solid with Toure partnering Sol. It'll be all over if TH14 gets a serious injury though! Come on you Gunners!!!
Tough one. My heart says Parlour (love him..tough, gritty veteran and great team player) but he has not been great lately and getting older. My head says Edu. He has been quite impressive and really belongs in our MF.
Last seen screaming down the right side of the Leeds midfield setting up their first (and only) goal against Liverpool. Counter-attacking football is predicated on two things: speed and incisive passing--both of which we seem to be lacking at this point.
Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man totally agree that there are two places up for grabs when it comes to team selection.. but certainly Ljungberg is the favourite to start on the right~ i picked Edu as his creativity and touch is well suited for first team selection.. the thing that we miss when paddy isn't in there is tackling! i mean, nobody besides Parlour will actually win the ball from fellow midfielders.. Pires next tackle will be his first and Freddie just doesnt track back like i would like.. one month without Vieira.. I would much rather this happen now than hurt us after the new year... Leeds, Tottenham, Birmingham, Fulham, Leicester.. not alot of fear in those matches..
Re: Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man This is a blessing, the timing that is. If we survive this storm until after the New Year...all will be right @ THOF.
Re: Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man I've thought Edu's play has been first-rate, including his tackiling. Outside of Viera he is probably the second most physical and aggressive midfielder Arsenal has. Parlour also jumps in to the fray, but not nearly as successfully as Edu. I'm still aghast he was left on the Sub's bench Sunday. I'd actually like to see Edu & Viera in the middle (when PV4 is healthy) and draw the wings from Ljungberg/Pires/Wiltord. Wiltord is so much more effective outside, he really needs to stop playing upfront.
Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man I put Ljungberg in because he is the first choice on the right when all are fit. He was put straight back in on Sunday and while he didn't have his best game, give him a chance to get back into a bit of form eh? I take your point about having Pires and Ljungberg in the same side, but it comes down to personnel. When Overmars was in the side he had that explosive pace to get in behind the opposition. With Bergkamp playing some of the best stuff of his career at the time and Overmars' top drawer finishing it was fine to have a more defensive minded player on the other wing. We haven't got a winger at the moment with those attributes, so maybe Wenger is looking to get a bit more going forward from both sides? A totally irrelevant post. A defender's job is to defend. If he can play a bit that's a bonus. A central midfield player has to be able to pass the ball accurately as well as get stuck in. My choice is Edu. His performances over the last few weeks since Vieira has been out have been excellent, I was surprised to see him dropped on Sunday. His touch, passing and tackling are all superior to Gilberto and he has more of an eye for goal too. A bit of flexibility in team selection wouldn't hurt either. We saw a bit of it in the match at Old Trafford when Wenger knew he had to get at least a point from the game after the debacle against Inter and played Parlour on the right to stiffen up the midfield. It's OK going for all out attack at home, but sometimes we need to be a bit more circumspect away, especially in Europe. I was amazed to see the 4-3-1-2 setup away in Kiev, I would have thought a solid 4-4-2 was the order of the day with the aim being defensive solidity and to try and nick a goal for a 1-0 win rather than being left light in a three-man midfield when Kiev attacked us.
Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man i don't know what other people are looking for, but if we need goals, i would prefer to play ljungberg on the left, where i think we all agree he is much more effective, pennant on the right, vieira in the center and pires playing in front of vieira and behind henry and ????. that way, vieira can concentrate strictly on defense and pires can take on the role of feeding our strikers. also, if pires wants to, as he did in the liverpool game, he can come back and defend somewhat effectively. and i know that when pennant scored his hat-trick last season, it was a meaningless game, but still, it's a hat-trick at premier level. meaningless or not, that is still a hell of a full debut. and more importantly, if we have pennant on the right with aliadiere as our right striker, we can get a partnership going from a young age between the two which could last for years to come. this is just how i see it. but of course there are many circumstances that would have to be right. like pennant back from leeds and wenger willing to let them play a few games without switching them out. but this is just how i would play it
Re: Re: Re: Midfield - The Fourth Man Even with the niggling injuries he keeps getting, Freddie has had plenty of time to get his form back, following his major lay off, but, he's just looked clueless. Edu has had some good games recently and I would like to see how much he could develop with a run in the side. However, good passing is not enough. There's a question mark over his fitness level and he lacks pace. He also has a tendancy to try and dribble or play clever balls out of defence, leaving us exposed when he fluffs it up. Parlour may not have the silky ball skills, but, he generally keeps it simple and effective at the back and is far more willing to run at players going forward. As for Edu having more aggression; that's total bloody tosh!!! With the current midfield I'd rather see both of them in the side, with Pires, Wiltord and Ljuneberg fighting for the creative spot, and Gilberto relegated to coverage/utility. This would enable AW to give Aliadiere more experience alongside Henry, with DB10 SW11 and Kanu supporting. The real problem is that, unless your Chelski, a good team should almost pick itself, but AW has'nt had the cash to bring in experienced new blood. We need a forward or 2 and a major rebuild in the middle.
Re: Tough one. I feel the same way. I absolutely love Ray, he's a true Gunner. But for me Edu is really beginning to show some positive signs. I used to cringe when I saw him in the line-up (although still prone to some giveaways) but now it's more of a blessing. Besides physicality he adds nice corner kicks and also a strong left foot for free kicks i.e. the Chelsea match.