What pompous ass closed the Chris Birchall thread! Well OK, so it had become off topic and moot and so on. Still, we were having a good chat about our midfield situation, so I decided to start a thread on that. The consensus seems to be that we plenty of outside midfielders and plenty of quality outside midfielders at that. Where we are concerned is both the quality and depth of our central midfield. Ramiro! Corrales is the only bonafide central midfielder. If he's healthy, he starts. Lima If he comes back, then he's a likely starter, especially given what we are paying him. Hopefully, he plays better with Corrales given a full pre-season to work together. Somma Davide played some central midfield for us towards the end of one match. It's not much to go on, but I was impressed. Gray Kelly played central mid for us when he first joined us this season. (Should have taken him in the expansion draft!!!!) He did OK initially, but then not so well. Maybe he can be a late game sub at center mid. I sure hope that he can at least provide cover in the center of the pitch. Grabavoy Ned had an up and down season for us. If, IF he could play like he did the last match of the season consistently, then he would be the answer for us. Sadly, he's only played that well once or twice for us. Given his salary, if he's not turning in great performances every match in the pre-season, then I think we should trade him. NewGuys I think we need at least two maybe three more central mid types in camp in the pre-season. I'm hoping that we can upgrade both Grabavoy and Lima, that is, find better or at least less expensive players to replace them. GOOOOO QUAAAAAAKES!!!! - Mark
I need to be updated, i stopped coming on for the last 5 days due to stupid school... still no word on birchall? anyways, pretty much a good list. One other idea that i remember frank tried to use a few times to replace grabavoy is have a holding/center left mid, then have ronnie be an attacking/center right mid while shea plays on the flank. This didn't have brilliant results, but it caused a couple good plays, ronnie was able to channel a few attacks, was able to spread out the game, and also could switch with shea throughout the game? This isn't my first choice, but with Lima leaving, grabavoy being desired to leave, and really some people that i don't feel would be good enough to start in center mid, is this a good back up? I would prefer Birchall and another solid backup central guy, maybe even keep grabavoy as a back up, but of course paying a sub that much would be a bit ridiculous.
Well the knews wasn't what I had hoped for (the deal seems to have gone cold), but thanks tmack! back to our other midfield options on the blog Doyle seemed very optimistic of a Lima return (or is that old news too?)
Out of the existing players Mark mentioned, only Corrales seems to be the reliable starter. --I wonder if Lima can last 90 min the whole season. If not, he will be an expensive 70min player or backup. --I don't like Grabavoy. Too easily dispossed and disappear like a ninja. He can certainly come in as sub or backup when someone's injured. His salary is not cheap. He will become another expensive backup. --Like Grabavoy, at most he is a sub or backup. His long passes are nice but his reaction is too slow. His defense resorts to tripping up people and getting yellow card. He is not exepensive though. As you can see, besides Corrales, none of the other 3 are reliable 90 min, and may work better as sub/backup/need backup and two of them are expensive compared to their effectivness. Also, there is not much of upside to offer in this career stage. Somma may have upside but he has to prove it if he stays for 2009 season. I like his hustle but he needs to have better decision making on the field. Again, at this point, not a proven starter. That leave us the new guy. We need him to be a starter right away, and not another benchwarmer from another team, which we already have too many for the same position. I think Frank may prefer a Eklund/Corrales type than DeRo/Riquelme type.
YES! On the off chance that I did not emphasize this enough: Ramiro Rules! I was hoping that Lima would not be back, thus giving us ~$200K in available salary cap and an international roster spot. So if he's going to come back, I want him to play like a stud. But I am not optimistic. I think we need to bring several new guys into camp to see if we can't find someone better than Lima, Grabavoy, Somma, or Kelly. (I hope that we keep Kelly because he's a local guy.) Or at the very least, push those guys into playing harder, improving their focus, and driving them to be better players. GOOOOO QUAAAAAAKES!!!!!!! - Mark
It's pretty impressive when you think about it - this will be Ramiro's 13th professional season, all with MLS except for the few years in Norway. And he seems to be getting better - maybe the years in Norway helped him a bit. OTOH when you consider that he was more of a bit player on the Quakes' championship teams, and now he's one of the best players, is it just that the team's quality has fallen off by that much?
Ramiro was excellent in 2003. He spent much of the season subbing for Ronnie in the center of the pitch. He played the left side midfield spot for us and occasionally left back. He was all over, and impressive. Then everyone sucked in '04. So I would argue that he has been a starter with the club. He started nearly every match in '04. We just had an off year. (Wonder why?!) I think Ramiro showed us the form he had in '03. I just want a couple more seasons of that from him!! GOOOOOOO QUAAAAAAAAKES!!!!!!!! - Mark
I was lukewarm on Ramiro version 1, but his second go around proved invaluable. Aside from the missed chances in the first third of the season, I think the thing that cost us the season last year was when Ramiro went down. His contributions don't always show up on the stat sheet, but he was gold for us last year. As for Lima, to once again borrow from the Wee Man, i think Lima's best days for us could be at sweeper. All that being said, another top drawer offensive mid has to be one of our top priorities.
What lineup would people see us using to have Lima be a sweeper? Does anyone think he'd stay at home enough. I think he expects to have freedom to roam around.
- - - NewGuy - - - Alvarez (or NewGuy2) Hucks - - - - - - - - - ROB - - - Corrales - - - Somma (or New Guy3) EricD - NickG - Lima - - Jason - - - - - - TheJoe And Lima gets to roam a bit, whilst Nick has to stay home more. Of course, Nick isn't fast enough to get forward any and not be caught out, so this might actually work. But it still requires that either Somma can start (long shot) or we sign a new guy who can.) Also, if we leave Alvarez in place and put in RJ for the NewGuy1 spot above, then we still have an anemic attack. We need to replace either Alvarez or RJ as a starter. It's tragic. GOOOOOOO QUAAAAAAAKES!!!!!!! - Mark
Yes, in a very dangerous part of the field where mistakes can cost us points. In all aspects, bad deal.
Also, we may have Maurcio Wright 2.0 here...only Lima is older. Anyway, if Lima does come back, we need to keep him at midfield, and hopefully with a smaller salary too.
Primarily, we are discussing central midfield. We have two options at the moment at right midfield (ROB and Shea) and two at left (Hucks and Arturo). At centeral mid, we have Corrales and potentially Lima. The other options (Ned, ROB, Arturo) are all adequate short term solutions (single game or subs). Of the three, I would say Arturo has the most upside and would like to see him play in more of an attacking role.
what? watching how frustrated John Doyle was for consistently having to cover for Wright's mistimed runs upfield? I know we've talked about it before, but is the consensus that Alvarez is going to be a forward? Tony
If the Quakes are going to sign two or three more forwards, and let's say two of them are good enough to be MLS starters, I'm not sure that I'd want him to play forward in the Quakes' "A" lineup. The question is where though. The outsides are pretty well spoken for, though I think it's possible that ROB won't be with the team this year. But then I don't know how comfortable Arturo is playing on the right. I agree with QuakeAttack. I'd like to see him play an attacking mid role. I don't know why he hasn't been used there much in the past (as far as I know). It would be a very offensive-minded choice because I don't think he plays defense or wins balls even as much as a Ned type of player.
I dont know what to make of the Quakes offseason needs and moves. I just think Yallop and Doyle need to focus on adding quality. Probably a forward and 1 or 2 defenders.
Arturo usually plays the right side midfield spot or forward. When he plays the right side of midfield, he's a little like a left footed Hucks (or Manny Lagos). When he turns inside, a left footed cross or pass curves in towards the goal. It's easy to shoot from the opposite side of your stronger foot, but a little harder to beat people down the line. (Again, making a strong case for two footed players.) Frank and Ian have not tried Arturo at attacking mid, yet. I think it might be worthwhile, especially if we can find a decent forward or two. Oh!? Who said that ROB won't be with us this year? They just renegotiated his contract. I think it is all but certain that ROB will be with us and one of our stronger players again. Maybe this? - - - RJ - - - - - - "Byres" Hucks - - - - - - - - ROB - - - - - - Arturo - - - - - - Ramiro Eric - Ryan - - Nick - Jason - - - - - - TheJoe Which then leaves Lima as the odd man out or an excessively expensive sub. (We assume either Byres or some other new signing or even Somma at forward.) In anycase, I expect Arturo to remain at forward with Lima remaining at center mid, though that isn't my first choice. We could see the team trade Arturo away too, if we get some better forwards. I am still hoping that Lima does not return. I think that we can do better for less money. GOOOOO QUAAAAAAAKES!!!!!!! - Mark
He did play in the center mid at one point in the 2nd half of some game. I can't remember which. It wasn't too good. He just lost possession a lot. I wouldn't rule out his ability to learn that position, but I don't think that he'll be some sort of revelation. I think too, it would do Arturo some good to be allowed to settle. Not that versatility is a bad thing. More that forward, right mid, left mid, center mid is too much. I think they should settle him to a best spot and one alternate. I don't want Lima to stay at all, as is well known. But some subs that seem like they should be in the starters, yet aren't, is a great thing. Having 3 or 4 odd men out would be super. It means that the first few injuries that we get, and we know they'll happen, won't feel like a big drop off.
I still think Johnson, Alvarez & Denton would be good options off the bench. There role/depth players. Joe Cannon Kelly Gray, Jason Hernandez, Ryan Cochrane, Nick Garcia Ronnie O'brien, Ramiro Corrales, New Guy, Darren Huckerby New Guy, Alvarez/New GuySub 1 - Shae Salinas Sub 2 - Arturo Alvarez Sub 3 - Ryan Johnson Sub 4 - Eric Denton Sub 5 - Davide Somma Sub 6 - Back Up GK Sub 7 - New Guy And I also really DO NOT want, Lima, Grabavoy, Sealy or Roberts back.
Well damn! OK, so maybe we lose Ronnie and play Arturo on the right side. It would save us some cap money and settle Arturo into a spot. QB, I think Nick is too slow for the central defender spot. If that is so, then he's not going to cut it at left defender either. Given that Nick was our team captain last season, I think he's going to remain our central defender and team captain this coming season. (Much to my dismay.) So I hope he proves that I'm as dumb as a fence post and puts in a fantastic season. Oh, and I don't want to depend on Kelly Gray as our starting right side defender. Sorry, just not up for that. I am up for Hernandez in the center, but I don't think that Frank will do it, unless Jason plays next to Nick and Ryan plays outside, or collects splinters. Ouch! GOOOOOO QUAAAAAAAKES!!!!!!! - Mark
It would also make the team suck. O'Brien is a force on defense, while Alvarez heard about it once or twice somewhere he isn't really sure. And O'Brien is way better passing and creating over a distance and doesn't get knocked off the ball. Huckerby is great, but he is shut-downable. The team needs an absolutely top notch player on the other side.
I think the value for $$ on ROB comes down to his health. Is he expected to play 70 minutes of 75% of the games, best as we could judge. If so, I think he's much better value for dollar then Lima. We have a good right wing sub to bring in for the last 20.