First off the Bush administration is no any better or worse then any administration since at least Reagan, except that he has taken a hard line on terror, which should have been done a long time ago. Secondly he raises questions without really thinking about them. Someone posted responses and a lot of them are logical, such as the one about the Bin Laden family. Some of his questions probably are legit but when he mixes them in with complete crap it is difficult for anyone but ultra-liberals to listen to him.
Ahhhh, but the difference is that I don't get on here over and over pushing thier agenda in peoples faces like you have done.
and from the left... A source! My kingdom for a source! In all fairness, Moore may have sources in his book. I didn't buy this one. I bought Stupid White Men, and then felt a little closer to being one after reading it. He takes so many liberties with logic and hyperbole that I wonder what his BigSoccer nick is. He comes across as a blithering idiot in that book. Ranting and raving, conjecturing, and using sloppy logic do nothing to help any leftist cause. Quite the opposite, in fact. The same way that anyone to the right of Jerry Rubin can be lumped in with Rush Limbaugh, this guy can unwittingly lend his own shrill tone to any effort espoused by any leftist. I'm not impressed.
Even if this were accurate though, Flash Man's point remains valid. If the Washington Post has time, energy and resources to explore the relationship between Herbalife and the Nobel Prize, they sure as hell had - and have - adequate resources to ask just a few of the questions Moore is asking, even if its just to hear them authentically refuted... But for your national media (and I continue to say "your" because I rarely even acknowledge them anymore...Democracy Now! baby!!!) to totally ignore these types of obvious questions when a large-scale crime was committed, and we haven't even found those conspirators with the criminals (who are, of course, just as dead as the 3,000 vicitms), is an utter disgrace, and someone ought to go to prison for dereliction of duty...
To paraphrase George Carlin's diatribe toward the Rev. Donald Wildman: "Hey, did ya know that there are three BOXES in the upper right corner of your browser? One minimizes, another maximizes, and the third one (slaps forehead) CLOSES THE WINDOW! Imagine that, you can actually CLOSE THE WINDOW! Its called Freedom of Speech, and its one of the principles this country was founded upon, look it up after you've finished burning all the (Michael Moore) books..."
I am interested in hearing from the guys on the right about the story making rounds about Bush gathering up the Bin Laden's in the country and ferring the to a safe harbour right after 9-11. Did this happen? I don't think it is okay to say "maybe they were interogated". I mean air travel was shut down, This would have to be engineered from pretty high offices, and it is incredible if true. Certainly wores in my mind than a consensual blow job in the oval office. This story keeps surfacing. Is it just internet bullsh1t? If it is true to me it is just mind boggling.
I saw this on TV during the days air travel was shut down. Where was the outrage then? Heck, every family has the member they'd rather forget. The family is connected and got some special treatment. But, they needed it. Maybe, just maybe there are people in this world who are more important than you and me. Sad to say (for me), but true. Just think. Non-Arab, brown people were targets in the days following the attacks. Some were murdered out of blind hate and misguided revenge. What this does tell you is that the USA knew pretty soon after that osama was to blame, or was to be blamed. Note, this is not the same thing. In fact, I would bet that they knew something (USA intel) and took it as impossible. This is the real crime. Osama was a known international terrorist, and they have had plans to kill him for years, and nothing. While we can investigate for political reasons or to help avoid such actions again, but this is an internal matter. The nation was reworked, reorganized as most of us requested. Now, you all think this is the new anti-freedom, Ashcroft version of 1984. Play the blame game for one reason...to fix the holes. The USA, the world can stop 99.999999% of future attacks, but the "bad guys" only have to get lucky once. That one moment in time will live forever in our minds as if the govt was asleep at the wheel...again. That is not a fair conclusion. Think of the bin laden exodus as a diplomatic gesture in a time of war. We were attacked. Think back to those images from VietNam when you'd guess that their "civil airtravel" was shut down. The USA sends in the helicopters to the embassy to svae their guys. Did they save the whole population, especially when the majority were innocent colateral damage? No. I mean, at worst, these cats should never have been allowed to be in the USA. Then, many would cry about racial profiles, or making brown people register, when we could have used long standing laws and policies to have detained some of the future terrorists before 9/11. This is what I find interesting about the failing case against the "20th Hijacker" Zacarias Moussaoui. He is linked to 9/11 when he was detained a month before in August 2001 and didn't actually take part in the attacks. Instead of killing him for "knowing" some of the attackers or other known terrorists or at the least, wanting to learn to fly, but not land an airplane, the US needs to find the 21st, and the 22nd hijackers. It has been learned that bin laden wanted more hijackings that day. He seems to have cut the final number near the end, but who here doubts that those other cells just never existed? They are here today, living and working with you and me. The Saudi princes can hire all the PR machines they want and visit the Bush ranch, but the public knows they are ditry and at worst, allowed this to happen to the USA, just so they would be spared. They could have told us, but then again, they won't even allow the US govt to question known and detained terrorists in their nation. They kill them before we get to ask a second time. What are they covering up? To think, they had the nerve to say after they were attacked earlier this year, "This is our 9/11." With friends like this... And no, bombing Mecca is not an option. Are you crazy? That is the holy site where all Muslums must visit before they die. Silly talk.
If Michael Moore (appropriate name) didn't have his d!ckface buried in a cheeseburger platter he'd know that intelligence agencies are constantly getting chatter from suspected terrorists. The days leading up to 9/11 were no different. This is an outright lie. Notice the weasel word "possibly." Yeah - trains, boats, hijacked buses - just about anything COULD'VE been used. I guess we should've been sealed in a protective cocoon until we could pinpoint the threat, Mikey. First Bush didn't do enough, and then after 9/11 he's doing TOO much. Typical hippo-crite moving the goalposts and ultimately never knowing what he really wants. Just wants to point fingers. Didn't al Qaeda declare "war" on America numerous times during the 1990s, Fat@ss? I thought so. How come those threats weren't taken seriously? How come numerous bombings during the 90s weren't taken seriously? How come you NEVER bring up the decade prior to 9/11 and how the terrorists were able to operate world-wide with impunity? Ahh - it doesn't fit in to your SUPERLIBERAL AGENDA. Don't choke on pork rinds in your $1 million Park Ave. apt., you "man of the people" you. Useless diaper load.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm People tend to forget that Osama is one of 52 children. He was not one of the favored children either. You can bet your ass there will be siblings who despise each other. Don't forget that a few of the bin Laden's have made large contributions to a number of American educational institutions and other organizations.
I find it rather interesting that after all the posts by some on the left asking the right to address the subject of the thread and not the posters, the left haven't responded back to anyone who did address the subject. They've continued the non-relevant slapfest. For instance, Eric B. posted a relevant argument middle of the second page, but every post from Universal thereafter was targeted towards those he eschews as the non relevant posters. Oh the hypocrisy.
Thanks for the link. Interesting recap. So it did happen. Most Americans would be stunned and appalled if they read this article. It is shameless, really. You might have thought our resources would be attending to the devastation in New York, or tightening security, but no. There are rich Saudis with special needs to wait on.
Keep in mind that I don't know your politics and this comment is just meant for general purposes not to critisize you: While I agree that we could have been doing better things with our resources keep in mind that this is a family that has denounced and cut off Bin Laden long ago and is to powerfull family to piss off. I also believe that it would not have mattered who was in power this would have been done anyway.
I'm guessing you're a fan of Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly, which would squarely in the Irony Department.
So are you saying that to dislike Moore you have to be an O'Reilly or Limbaugh fan? Can't you dislike him simply bcause you like to find the facts and not just follow some blowhard who likes to hear his own voice blindly?
Actually I haven't listened to Rush since 2001 and the only time I did then was when I was driving long distances during weekdays and couldn't find ESPN Radio. I think he says some good things, I also think he can take the one side of the story that fits what he wants to say and not reveal the other side. I form my opinions by reading the paper, websites, watching various news channels and doing research, if some of them are Rush-like then I guess he had something good to say! Michael Moore is a lot more blatant in his deceptions and misdirections he also tends to back up his facts with statements using terms like "possibly" and "probably" while Rush uses actual clips and quotes. Moore did a couple of good things in the past and let it go to his head that he should be the leader of the destroy the Republican party faction, while Rush has been himself since day one.
Since day one, Rush Limbaugh has been a lying racist (and apparently a drug addict, though that seems to be more recent).
Here we go again, now present with the racist statements Rush made and make sure to not have the context they were made in so they fit the way you want them to. We went over this in another thread. Face it you think Moore is the all-knowing fact man and I believe in checking various sources for the facts. I am not going to get further into this because it was already played out.
Or maybe not all 52 of them did. Why no investigation of the brothers bin Laden? The Bush administration's line is the Binladdins (a more common spelling of the Arabic name) are good folk. Osama's the Black Sheep, supposedly cut off from his Saudi kin. But the official line notwithstanding, some FBI agents believed the family had some gray sheep worth questioning -- especially these two working with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), which the file labels "a suspected terrorist organization." .... No matter how vile WAMY's indoctrination chats, they are none of the FBI's business. Recruitment for terror, however, is. Before 9/11, the governments of India and the Philippines tied WAMY to groups staging murderous attacks on civilians. Following our broadcast on BBC, the Dutch secret service stated that WAMY, "support(ed) violent activity." In 2002, The Wall Street Journal's Glenn Simpson made public a report by Bosnia's government that a charity with Abdullah bin Laden on its board had channeled money to Chechen guerrillas. Two of the 9/11 hijackers used an address on the same street as WAMY's office in Falls Church, Virginia. http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=195&row=1
Please explain to me how "get the bone out of your nose and call me back" was taken out of context. You've mistakenly assumed that I'm a huge Michael Moore fan. I'm not. I don't particularly like his shock-jock style of politics, even if I do tend to agree with many of his positions.
This presents some interesting ideas, I suppose there probably are some "gray sheep" in the family, but unfortunately in politics some of the gray sheep are allowed to roam because the big picture has to take precedence over the little picture and many times it comes back to bite you in th ass (various Presidents not offing Bin Laden in the past). Though I am sceptical about the source of the article you posted the link to. A quick glance at the writers website: http://www.tompaine.com/ it seems to be a very liberal website consisting of articles blaming conservatives for everything that has ever happened in this country. But this is a very good point you make.
To sum things up - Michael Moore Is A Big, Fat, Lying, Liberal, Scvmbag Idiot. Sounds like a good book title. Someone tell Stuart Smalley.