I don't know if everyone has been following the ongoing Big East-ACC saga regarding possible expansion in the ACC. Miami, Boston College, and Syracuse might leave the Big East because of pointy football and money. This would leave the Big East in total disarray and could have a huge impact on college soccer. Adding Boston College and Syracuse to the ACC would further strengthen one of the best soccer conferences, plus the tournament would grow. The really interesting thing is what might happen to the Big East. Here's some speculation from ESPN's Andy Katz: "An extreme example being tossed around is a Catholic league of Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, Dayton, Xavier, DePaul, Saint Louis, and maybe Notre Dame, if it were to remain an independent in football." This new conference would be great in basketball and pretty darned good in soccer as well. There's all kinds of crazy rumors flying around but it should be interesting to see how conference alignments shift and what this does to soccer. Any opinions, insight, suggestions for cool new conferences?
It doesn't talke a genius to see that, from a soccer perspective, it helps the ACC and hurts the Big East, especially if there is fall out that leads to the Big East changing. If the Catholic Conference that Katz speculates about were to come to fruition, that would be a strong soccer league. But, whither UConn and Rutgers? I guess they could try and scramble into the Atlantic 10 or Conference USA, but I think they would be hurt if they aren't playing in a top soccer conference. Finally, with two schools in Florida and neither of them having men's soccer, I would think that eventually one of them will find a away, a la Michigan, to add men's soccer. A team in Miami, with all the recruiting advantages that that area offers - great local talent base, great environment to offer out of town recruits - combined with being in a top conference like the ACC AND with the money that Miami football and merchandising produces and you could - and that's the key word - could be looking at a future dominant program a la UCLA.
I went to Rutgers, but I never heard this was going on. I think this would be really bad for Rutgers sports in general, but Rutgers was arguably a better soccer power when they were in the A-10. I don't think it hurts RU for soccer much at all. If anything, the program regressed in the Big East.
Sandon- I agree about the Florida schools. Look what Michigan has accomplished in such a short time. Miami or FSU could be a power quickly if they added men's soccer. I wonder what the Catholic conference would be called... Actually, with the great job Holy Cross has done in basketball in recent years, I wonder if they'd want in too. Sorry to stray from the topic at hand. Billf- Interesting take on Rutgers. I wonder if the Atlantic 10 would be the other big winner (besides the ACC) if the Big East were split up.
How about adding Creighton to the Catholic Conference? They have been talking for the last couple of years about getting out of the MVC for basketball reasons. They have also thrown out a Midwest private-school league which would include Creighton, St. Louis, Marquette, DePaul, SMU (in soccer), Bradley, Drake, Denver, Vandy (in soccer), among others. Thoughts?
Adding Creighton to the Catholic League would make for an outstanding soccer and basketball conference. The proposed Midwest small school league would also be good in both sports. Why no TCU...oh wait...nuts!
As a DePaul fan, I can't see the benefit of aligning ourselves with Bradley, Drake, Denver, and SMU, if it could be avoided. and I would think that St. Louis and Marquette would feel much the same way. That conference would be a big step down in terms of TV exposure, RPI rankings, NCAA bids, etc. The ideal scenario for DePaul is this: "Catholic Conference" East 1. Providence 2. St. John's 3. Seton Hall 4. Villanova 5. Georgetown 6. St. Joseph's "Catholic Conference" West 1. DePaul 2. Marquette 3. Saint Louis 4. Notre Dame 5. Dayton 6. Xavier If they couldn't get all 12 of those schools (...a REAL possibility), then I think they'd add Creighton in a heartbeat. The Blue Jays would be a big help in terms of Men's Basketball, soccer, and baseball. And yeah, that would be a pretty kick ass soccer conference... especially if Creighton joins.
Mike- I love the conference you propose. Creighton could replace Notre Dame if the Big Ten makes a push for the Irish like some expect. Now the only question is what do we name this new Catholic Conference? I wish I could come up with some witty name, but alas, I'm sleepy.
Well, the ACC took the first step and officially voted to add three teams. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52028-2003May13.html Which three teams officially remains in doubt as Miami may try and fenagle a sweetheart deal from the BigEast. Meanwhile, Virginia governor Mark Warner is pressuring UVa to pressure the ACC to have Va. Tech be the third team but it sounds like the ACC want Boston College because of the revenue that TV market would bring. While none of this is because of soccer, it will definitely impact it. If it does turn out to be BC, the ACC gets another Top 20 program and Syracuse has the potential to become one, especially when they can offer the conference. At the same time, the impact of the other schools in the Big East will be dramatic and there will be many ripple effects. As someone once said in the movies, hang on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
From the ACC Website: On the possibility of ACC expansion: “The conference call among the league’s Chancellors and Presidents (Tuesday) morning was another step towards completion of an ongoing process that is not yet finalized. It is not appropriate at this time for me to share the particulars of (Tuesday's) conference call out of respect to our own schools and to potential candidates. At this time, no final decisions have been reached.”
As an Irish fan, I'd love this conference. I think ND would actually do this as I believe that they would prefer to stay independent in football if at all possible.
reconferencing i do not believe it is in the best interest of college soccer to create super-conferences, as would be the case with a newly configured ACC. Circumstances, ie; the disparity in the number of american football vs. the number of soccer teams participating in various conferences dictate the need to look at reconferencing soccer teams without regard to conference membership. the pac 10 had to add fresno state(on the brink) to qualify the conference champion for an automatic NCAA berth. if little games like these are acceptable under NCAA guidelines, and a need exists to create parity in intercollegiate soccer, why not create conferences for soccer that meet those needs? Create conferences comprised of teams in close geographic proximity that will be competitive vs. other conferences. there are multiple configurations, and this approach would create more interest in college soccer. try to come up with 10 conferences of 10 div 1 teams meeting this criteria. i will submit mine after my research is concluded. it will be interesting to see if many deserving teams would be excluded from the top 100.
Re: reconferencing This is alread done in college ice hockey. Hockey conferences are nothing akin to the confereces in other sports.
Don't expect Miami to field a soccer team. Their athletic department loses money every year despite the quality of their football program. The fact that they rarely ever come close to selling out their stadium (and a smallish stadium at that), means a great deal for their revenue flow. FSU or UF are much better chances to pick up men's soccer, although the fact still remains that all they will do is lose money for the athletic department and make Title IX enforcement that much more difficult.
the natural alignment for acc soccer would add south carolina, furman, davidson and william and mary. why burden teams with increased travel expenses going up and down the east coast to play teams that are no better than local teams? the regional rivalries that play out during the n.c.a.a. tournament add to the esoteric appeal of d-1 mens soccer. also, a thought on a florida school adding a mens program, as long as the percentage of female students continues to grow relative to male students, it won't happen. no school, regardless of it's financial situation, can add a mens sport until it starts admitting more male students.
I can assure you that South Carolina will never be allowed to affilaite with the ACC. The Cocks bolted from the conference in the 70's - supposedly because they didn't want to deal with the tougher academic standards the conference had - and the ACC will not easily forget, nor forgive, that defection. Too bad, from a soccer perspective, but that's just the way it is.
Interesting article in USA Today on the potential negative impact of the ACC expansion on 'Olympic sports" (i.e. soccer) in the Big East and ACC. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2003-05-28-expansion-impact_x.htm
An article in Monday's New York Post quoted and unidentified person close to the Rutger's AD as saying they could lose as many as 10 of their 30 varsity sports if the reconfiguration went through as planned.
This article quotes the BC coach. http://boston.com/dailyglobe2/153/sports/BC_may_look_trim_in_ACC+.shtml Andy
Very interesting stuff. Certainly throws water on the argument that programs only die due to Title IX. Really shows how complicated those types of decisions are. With tuition rates rising and travel and insurance always a big budget bite, this is a bad sign for lots of sports.
Andy, thanks for the link, that was a great article. A few thoughts: *If this move helps BC get fully-funded, than from a soccer persepctive, it was totally worth it. And, that BC has been able to do the things it's done the past couple years without being fully funded is pretty impressive. *Syracuse has only 13 sports? Man, they have to be operating at a surplus. Both the football and hoops programs play in a sold out arena (that is big for hoops and small for football) and bring in a lot of post-season money. And the lacrosse program has to be close to being breakeven. What the hell are they doing with the money and if the Syracuse soccer program isn't fully funded now, it better be soon. *I want to feel bad for the sailors, fencers and skiers, but just can't seem to manage much sympathy. *BC is going to be the best men's hockey team in the ACC! BTW, with nine soccer playing teams, what happens to the ACC tournament? Will the last place team not qualify or will they have to have a play-in between 8 and NC State?
Go eagles! Yet, Ed Kelly failed to mention who are his new recruits. I suppose ACC expansion is affecting recruiting.
http://www.ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetail.asp?CRITERIA=3 Hopefully that link works. If it doesn't, go to: http://www.ope.ed.gov/athletics/search.asp and search for Syracuse. Cuse is pretty much break even over all. Hoops and football each clear about $3M. That link is invaluable. Gives real data on squad sizes, revenue and expenses and number of athletes. I can. That's how this whole situation starts - classifying which sports are "more important."
How I want the new ACC expansion to affect NCAA soccer... I pray that my alma mater will finally get with the program and compete for the ACC title. Women, Men, mutant bactieria, I don't care, I want a Ga.Tech soccer team. Can't believe we still don't have one.