Post-match: Mexico 3-US 0 9.6.19

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by manfromgallifrey91, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I don't follow football but are the Raiders now worried about class or humility?

    If so, I don't know what the world is coming to....
    Lloyd Heilbrunn repped this.
  2. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I agree and if I understand you correctly, fully agree that his lack of effectiveness was in large part due to his positioning on the field....which is a game plan/strategy issue more than a player issue.
    lmorin, DHC1 and Patrick167 repped this.
  3. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mahtzo1 repped this.
  4. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    So we're not giving up on McKennie?
    Mahtzo1 and sXeWesley repped this.
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    I'm not. I'll continue to maintain that this team's best setup is a 4-2-3-1 with Sargent up top, Pulisic and Weah on the wings, and Adams and McKennie in a double pivot. I realize this means a 10 is required, but I'd see if Lletget or Pomykal could fill that role. By having Adams and McKennie as dual defensive mids, that would provide some cover for players like Robinson or Dest as fullbacks.

    I know Berhalter wants to play a Dutch-inspired possession style with a deep-lying playmaker, but we don't have that playmaker in the system right now. What we do have are two bulldogs as defensive midfielders, speed on the wings, and a #9 that has shown at least some ability to create up top.
    dams, nobody, UncagedGorilla and 6 others repped this.
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    I know somebody already has. I think Weston dumped his sister via text though.
    truefan420 repped this.
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Maybe we should “experiment” with how this looks. Crazy.
    UncagedGorilla repped this.
  8. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Well GGG must not have been your coach! Congrats
  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Arsenal FC
    Sargent is easily muscled around at the lone 9 spot up top you are thinking about. The solution is to play with a second 9 like Morris or Weah or Jozy, etc.

    Weah isn't good at getting over the ball where he can score from the wings. That could change at Lille but seeing is believing.

    Pulisic is too important to weigh down with any duties other than playing a 10 with a bee line to goal in his sights.

    Adams will go nuts playing with McKennie. There isn't really a true 2 dmid scheme unless there's 2 balls on the pitch. Basically McKennie would be the auxiliary 6 (an 8) and his job would be to understand positioning so Adams can hunt the play. I don't see McKennie able to do that. It's why they keep pushing him further up the pitch or to the sides at Schalke.
  10. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I repped you for the formation, as that is what I think we should do. Having said that, Jozy, right now, would still be the best person up top to get service from those wingers.
    Winoman and UncagedGorilla repped this.
  11. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Who? :);):(
    DHC1 repped this.
  12. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been avoiding this thread until now. I haven't read through it, but I'm pretty sure I know what is being said. I have always been a "give Berhalter a chance to instill his style" guy, but after yet another miserable game where he got completely outcoached after the first 20 minutes I think I'm reaching the end of that rope. It was infuriating to see the team, yet again, constantly passing the ball back to Steffen or one of the CBs, ON THE END LINE AND UNDER PRESSURE, instead of, you know, tyring some other way to get the ball up field. I don't have some brilliant tactical analysis (I never do), but I know enough about what I'm watching to say, clearly and unequivocally, that if that's how your gameplan rolls, and how the coach is telling you to play, then you're doing it wrong and you're gonna get scored on, a lot.
    nbarbour, Namdynamo, Statman and 9 others repped this.
  13. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    He succesfully made these guys look much worse than they really are.
  14. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was hoping for a back three against Mexico with Dest and Cannon as WB. Maybe we get it against Uruguay.

    UncagedGorilla and TimB4Last repped this.
  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd agree with that formation against good teams but for bunker busting a 4-3-3 with Adams as the 6 and McKennie / Pomykal or Lletget if better than either of those as twin 8/10's. I'm not sure about a 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 because most of our players don't play it and we're already seeing how they're having trouble with a too intricate for a national team system. I'd say an advantage countries with a dominate team or teams have is the national team can implement the same system as their best team(s) and since most players will come from a team or two they will be used to the intricacies of that system. Something that the US doesn't have the luxury of with players spread out all over the world playing different styles.
  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    When a reasonable wait-and-see poster like tomásbernal nears the end of his rope, that should tell everyone a lot about losing the fan base.

    I have little doubt that the USSF monitors BigSoccer (which they absolutely should) but I think that those in charge care little about losing its most passionate fans.
    nbarbour repped this.
  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    GB played essentially a 4-4-1-1 with Weston as a SS. McKennie was often one of the 2 highest forwards pressing the Mexican build up. How is he aslo supposed to be in position to stop the counter?

    Schalke has played 3 matches this season and Weston has started all 3 in CM, primarily as a double pivot next to Mascarell.
  18. Black Tide

    Black Tide Member+

    Mar 8, 2007
    the 8th Dimension
    Guy its cool Egg hears us. He knows we are upset. He even said it himself.

    Here are the relevant quotes.

    “Listen, let’s be fair to fans,” the US men’s national team head coach said in a Monday afternoon press conference. “We have an obligation to the fans, and that obligation is to win games and entertain them. We’re trying our best.”

    He went on to say:

    “First of all, I wouldn’t get caught up on playing from behind,” Berhalter said. “We want to be able to break lines, we want to open up and disorganize the opponent. It was a huge emphasis against Mexico in that game to show the guys they can do that, be brave against a high-pressing team and you can succeed.”

    That doesn't mean anything. Saying you want to break lines and disorganize your opponent is the point of soccer. This is just more snake oil. Again this is the new normal. He has a system that he is utterly and completely married to and will not let go. I assume Trapp and Zardes will start tonight. we will get pasted by Uruguay. Egg will then say we learned a lot and we view this as an internal success. friendly soccer media stories will be written about "progress." Wash Rinse Repete.

    We are, what, 15 games in? He still cant constructed a decent roster. He doesnt seem to understand how the midfield works. He cant make tactical adjustments. Down a goal late, sub on a defender. Getting pinned in by a high press, double down on short tiki taki passes in front of goal instead of playing a long ball.

    He is not up to the job. And it seems some players are starting to realize that. Pulisic's tweet was a very obvious inditement of the system. And I wonder if we might start seeing more of it.
    Patrick167 repped this.
  19. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that never even happened, once.
  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    So yeah, if the point was they would be successful playing like that against Mexico and then be super-confident, I'm not so sure he should be quite so happy. I mean, if anything was a crushing blow to the confidence of a team trying to play that way, getting smacked around at home and having little to no success should do it. If you're looking to build confidence, you schedule teams you can beat.
    Namdynamo, Patrick167 and DHC1 repped this.
  21. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    The difference being that once upon a time we had the athletes more or less capable of winning the occasional individual duel and creating defensive imbalance. Not seeing that from our current crop of players. By necessity, we're playing into their style and looking largely second best.
  22. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    To be completely accurate, we don't have the horses to be an effective pressing and counterattacking team either. So there you go.
    gogorath repped this.
  23. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    So, we just suck whatever we try so whatever Gregg's plan, it's just as valid as anything? OK.
    DHC1 repped this.
  24. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #449 lmorin, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    I sympathize with you pov and would agree completely if the game mattered in a competition. However, I think Berhalter is trying to solve a problem that has plagued the USMNT forever. They don't know how to play out of the back. It doesn't really matter whether it is or is not an appropriate tactic for a friendly against Mexico. The team, as a group, has to learn to do it in a manner that at least approximates the way ManCity does it so successfully.

    First, it takes courage to hit many of those passes when deep in the defensive third. The guys have to learn to be courageous and to understand their ability to complete them. Second, they have to be calm on the ball (like Dest, actually) and make the right decision for such passes. The awful pass by Steffen was a perfect example of one that was based on a poor decision. Third, and perhaps most important, is the need to have possible recipients of the defensive zone passing constantly seeking useful space in which to successfully receive the ball. No flat-footedness; no ball watching; no movement that places an opponent between the passer and receiver; etc. That takes effort by every individual on the team, but especially the midfielders. Such movement was sorely lacking in the MEX game. To me, #3 was the biggest problem for the US in that game. It's pretty simple for a team to apply pressure on the passer when no potential recipient checks for the ball.
    russ and striker repped this.
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I've rewatched the first half and I catalogued the plays out of the back. We failed to establish the ball into the midfield about half the time. Which I think we all knew.

    I think what I didn't notice the first time around, is how much of that was down to Steffen, who missed 4 Wide open guys on what should be relatively routine passes.

    In addition, he also put Zimmerman in a bad spot over and over despite no real pressure on himself. They'd pressure Zimmerman but not Steffen, and he'd pass it to Zimmerman. Zimmerman then had 4 or so balls he just punted with no real shot at completing the pass.

    I don't think the entire pool is prepared to play out of the back versus a pressing Mexico ... but Steffen was abysmal on Friday. I've seen him be better, but he couldn't do anything right, at least in the first half.

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