I dont like that part of the game anymore than most Americans. Unfortunatley it is part of the game. It would be foolish and arrogant of us not to learn it.
So somehow this incident gets twisted into a "those Americans don't understand the subtleties" thing??? Neither Guevera's nor Thornton's conduct had anything to do with nationality. Red Card, you are spot on with the PK call. It is interesting you raise the issue of Beckham and retaliation. His raised leg after being leveled five years ago vs. Argentina is apples to the oranges of yesterday's assault. I rather doubt Beckham intended injury, but Thornton clearly meant to hurt Guevera. Quite frankly, I thought the red card against PoshBecks was unfair for someone on his belly, merely raising a leg. And Beckham wasn't leveled in hopes of provocation. Guevera didn't hope to provoke Thornton. The only aspect of "gamesmanship" that matters in terms of the attack on Guevera is that grabbing the ball out of the goal after you score, when down, is common practice. Thornton flipped out. Hall had to restrain him, and did a terrible job (can't blame him from preventing contact, but he needs to be blamed for failing to issue a red card). Even the guys on MLS Wrap thought what Zach did was a cut-and-dry, red-card offense. When an official has to restrain a player, who STILL makes aggressive contact, there are SERIOUS anger-management issues that need to be addressed. I think suspension from 3-5 matches would do well to teach him that lesson. BTW, those nutmegs on Grafer reminded me of the first shot Zach faced in MLS competition.
I have some questions. What is Gaven's schedule? Is he staying with the Metros for the next month? Also, does he still have one full year of the program in Florida, or is that finished? And what happened to Joe Addo? He doesn't seem to be considered as an option in central defense. I'm all for letting young players gain experience, but giving up three goals at home to a weakened Chicago side does not bode well.
How it didn't get cleared in the post match report I don't know, but Hall gave both of them yellows, Thornton for the shove and Guevara for the acting. He had to run around 3 players to finally show it to Guevara, and he stuck his arm up 3 different times. ESPN2's wunderkind Rob Stone missed it, but perhaps he didn't get the correct angle on the replay. From someone standing 50 feet away, it was clear Hall meant to card both of them, deservedly. I don't think Thornton intended to hurt Guevara, he just wanted to shove him down. Divers like Luis Hernandez aside, I don't think anyone has ever been hurt by being shoved down onto grass, and Guevara's fall was caught by the net. He was clearly uninjured, he was just trying to get a card, which he did. Gamesmanship, as it were. Also, I think the Fire fans are funny. "Guevara had him in a headlock". Please. One arm on the shoulder, another on the arm. Does anyone really thing a guy like Thornton could be seriously hurt by Guevara's "headlock"? Thornton is a house. Guevara is a midget. If Amado ran into him studs up, yes, he could do damage, but there is no way Amado was injuring him there. Zach was in his face, he was trying to push Zach out of the way so he could get by him. And for the number of people who have never heard of a player picking a ball up out of the net and running to the halfway line with it when down by a goal (or 2, in this case), you need to watch more than 3 games in your life before you comment. This happens all of the time. Earnie Stewart's done it, among many others.
Jamaison said "I don't think anyone has ever been hurt by being shoved down onto grass, " I had a player thrown out of our league for life for doing exactly that to an official. He took a ride in the air before he hit the grass.
Gavan goes with under 17 to play in world championship in August. ---------------- On addo this is a very good question. Another question is why take a 5'6" Center back? I think if you are hardly going to play him why take him? Maybe, he thought he can convert him to a wing back. ------------ If it was my team I would give a part time contract to a keeper from the A-league. They have some pretty good keepers in that league. They have some pretty good fill in strikers in that league. Not that are new kids can't play because they can play. But dumping them into games with a limited amt of practice does nothing for their confidence, and it does not do much to help us win. Hard work is fine, but it takes more then working hard to score goals it takes a ton of practice. Plus you better have things to teach them that make them better finishers. I would wait until all our holes are filled. Then put one new kid in at a time after a lot of team practices with our best players. That will give them the best chance to look good. We want to put them in a position to look their best not their worst. Somethings you can't rush.
I respectfully disagree. Guevera was fairly deliberately getting in Thornton's way so the other Metro player (Galvan?) could get the ball out of the net. I'm in the "could have been a red and a yellow, but was downgraded" camp (alleged yellow to Guevara notwithstanding), although as a Fire fan, I sorta have to have a foot in the "ha ha he dumped your guy on his ass" camp as well. Sorry. Someone else pointed out that it all would have been moot had LeBlanc not been such a dumbass after scoring the goal, acting like he had just won the World Cup. And I wonder if Jolley has gotten too used to Pope playing next to him...obviously, he expected DiGi to pick up Ralph, and I'd have to imagine Pope would have been in position to make that stop. Finally, I'd love to know who was supposed to be covering Magee on that wide-open header he put over the bar. Could have been a drastically different ballgame. I really like what I've seen of Ricardo Clark so far, and I think Ray Hudson, who still has no real d-mid, is an idiot for not taking him at number one, even with Esky getting a couple on Saturday. Later, COZ
It was his first goal as a pro. I don't really have a problem with a guy trying to get psyched up about a goal when his team is trying to come back. If you want to be critical of someone's goal celebration and interpret it the wrong way, almost every game has an example of this. I really didn't notice the Fire defense looking upset with LeBlanc himself.
hi. my favorite part of the match was when a fire defender (not sure who) gave gaven a hard shirt pull about 40 yards from the ball in the first minute. the kid looked like he was about to run off the field crying. he settled down later though. tough way to break your cherry. as for thorton, i think he'll get a pass, just like clark got a pass last week for his *insert euphamism here*. if there isn't an obvious injury (like Wolyniec's swing at McCarty) then i don't think he'll get any disciplinary action just because both teams are already so missing so many players. first time poster, amar
Kenny Arena sucks. He is terrible. He belongs on a PDL team. With Arena 0:3 Without Arena 2:0 So you have defenders from Boca Juniors sitting on the bench BEHIND Arena? WTF? Yeah, Bob, we understand that you owe your job and career to Kenny's daddy, but have SOME shame. For this PAST career advancement help you are willing to throw away 20,000 fans' hopes of a great season?! The one positive in this is: You can't hide even one crummy player in the MLS anymore.
Magee has to finish better. He had three clear goals that he failed to score with poor, free headers. Whether or not Thorton was provoked, a field player would more than likely see red, especially in Europe. It was a case of too little too late. Where was the defense to help out Jolley on Ralph's goal?
Umm...Arena plays central defender, sure he has a long way to go in terms of improvement, but to suggest that a flank defender, Forchetti, should step into the middle of the backline is ridiculous. Galvan, the other Boca player, is a midfielder. If Rolando Schiavi is available on the cheap...
I wasn't saying the Fire defense had any problem with it. Heck, I didn't have a problem with it. I'm just saying that, as an opposing fan, I was actually surprised that LeBlanc didn't pick the ball out of the net himself in order to get the play started again. Later, COZ
Dude, it's rubber. Nothing's going to happen health-wise 20 years down the road, at least not from rubber sand. BTW, it's astonishing what a massive difference there is between FieldTurf installed in large part for heavy soccer use like Giants Stadium, Seahawks Stadium, Nickerson Field, Luzhniki (Lokomotiv) Stadium etc. and the utter pile of trash that is Southlake. After reflecting more on what happened Saturday I think maybe the Metros will be a solid contender by years end. They now have a chance to bleed a few young'uns (who despite poor finishing played very well) and when Pope, Mathis, Moreno etc. return the Metros should be very, very dangerous. Kevin
Ridiculous to play a professional quality defender as opposed to a PDL sub-calibur player? Yes, patently ridiculous to play a defender in the defense, outside or inside, as it has never been done before at the professional level. What would you have said (had you even known about soccer before 94) when Ruud Gullitt was moved from sweeper to center forward--while already a professional, in his 20's?
Seems to me a very short central defender, Nick Garcia of KC does a pretty good job at about 5'7 or 5'8, whatever they list him at. He is not 6ft 2inches but plays with toughness and heart. I do not see why Forchetti could not play the middle of the defense either. My opinion is you could take Ricardo Clark with his jumping ability, speed , and aggresiveness, place him next to Jolley and he would be the best central defender for us right now in spite of the fact he is a "midfielder".