Introduction How's that for a fancy title? This is something that's been brewing in my mind for quite a while, and I've finally progressed far enough to be able to introduce the first draft of my methodology to the world. Don't get too hung up on the term world class, BTW. It's of course an ambiguous non-term that means different things to different people, but I feel it's the best description for what I'm planning here. I originally thought this method up when I was imagining what football history would look like if the Bosman-ruling, or something similar, had always been in play. What would the super-teams of yesteryear have looked like if they had had the money and opportunity to pick the cream of the crop? Of course we all know it's pretty much impossible to compare players of a different era to each other, and discussion is always made more difficult by the poindexters who start talking about how football now/back then/whenever was crap (the best era always coincidentally coincides with the time when the person was a kid). According to my theory, the number of world class players in any era is a constant. Being a top 5 or top 10 class player in your position in an era has the same value, whether it happened during the last 5 years, the early 80s, or even back in the 30s. What this method isn't about is determining who's better, Pele or Maradona, or Messi or Ronaldo. Lord knows we have enough of that going around. I'm not going to put the players in a strict order, because a) I don't feel it's realistic, and b) I'm not qualified. Instead, I'm going to pick out 16 of the best players for every position (or 32 when there are two guys on the pitch playing the same position) in a certain era. So that's 16 times 11. Think of them as the last 16 in an imaginary tournament. The advantage of this method is that it doesn't identify only which players where the best in an era, the Ballon-winners and such, but also who were the other top stars of the time, the ones that came right after the cream of the crop, but who may largely have been forgotten since. Why 16, besides the fact it's a nice evenish number? In my view, If you ask people to name the best players for every position in an era, this is approximately the number that will stand out, the world class players. After that, the field starts widening quite a bit, and things start to get too blurry to get any remotely accurate results. The actual number might be less than 16, or sometimes more, but we'll see. The interesting bit is that I haven't actually done this yet, except for very rough drafts in my head, so the results might surprise me as much as anybody. Maybe after the first results are out the entire theory has been flushed down the toilet. This methodology is heavily based on the work I did a while back compiling the complete ESM player of the month results. Like I did for that project, I'm going to divide football history into nice and compact 5-year eras, because that's pretty much the number of peak years a top player or team generally has. 10 years is way too long, and too many things change during that time, while with less than 5 years the results will get boring and repetitive. I'll be starting off with 2011-2015, and moving backwards all the way to 1960-1965. My knowledge has for the most part been acquired from reading World Soccer Magazine, combined with other random books and of course online sources/discussion. WS has been the most valuable source by far, though. Throughout reading the run, I was surprised at how high some player was valued, while some other "greats" barely earned a mention. That said, WS is only one source, and isn't fully reliable, especially in the early days when the mag was a lot thinner, had less coverage and was relying on a smaller number of prolific contributors. That's why I'd love to have input from other knowledgeable posters here, especially ones that have access to other renowned magazines. Ideally, I'd love to extend this ranking all the way to the beginning of the professional era, but my knowledge pre-60s is too limited. I don't trust retrospective or online sources that much, TBH. I've recently gone through the early 90s World Soccers, so those are fresh in my mind, and I feel ready to make the 90-95 list. Post-95 will be easy of course, because of the ESM-results. 2015-2020 I'll probably be able to make next summer, as the one missing year won't make a huge difference. As for the rest, it's been years since I read the 60s issues, so I'll have to go through them again before attempting any kind of list. This will be a long-term project, so don't expect all the results immediately.But would love to have some input from you guys, even if in the end it's just going to be a bunch of lists I'm making, purely for fun and entertainment.
Rules - For a player to qualify for a certain era, they have to have played in more than half of the seasons in that time. That means 3 years. So a player who retired in 2012 won't qualify for the 2011-2015 era, even if he was the best in the world in 2011 and 2012. - That said, I'll cop out immediately, and say this isn't enforced super-strictly. If a player was at the top for 2 years and played 3 years at a more modest level, they may still make it in. This is particularly the case for emerging players. We can imagine a player was already one of the best before his big move to Real Madrid, even if the public at large hadn't quite discovered him yet. In a case where a veteran player was still good for 2 years but then went to wind down at a smaller club, I'm more likely to leave him out. - A special case are the players whose peak is unfortunately split between two eras. Like being world class between 2008-2012, but not really outside that. In those cases I'm likely to bend the rules so they'll make it in somewhere, leaning to the earlier era when they were still emerging. What's important is that a deserving player gets a mention somewhere. The number of different eras a player is included in isn't that important. Once you're in you're in. - The biggest legends get a slight advantage, especially in the eras where I don't have ESM for advantage. A really big name who only played 3 out of 5 seasons in an era is more likely to get in than someone who might just creep in. If a player just barely creeps in by the skin of his teeth for for two different eras, I'm likely to drop him from one of them so another deserving player gets the nod. - I'm not a big stickler on player positions. I try to make reasonably realistic elevens, but the most important thing is to get all the big names in. There are less big names playing FB or DMF than there are other positions, so I'm likely to throw players there from CB or CMF, even if they didn't really play that position that much during that era. So no complaining about how some player was really more of an X than Y! - Also, no complaining about player order, or who's better, Messi or Ronaldo. For the ESM-based lists I'll just be using the order based on the number of ESM-points they received. For the ones before that, I'll probably just use an alphabetical order.
I'm going to go through at least the 2011-2015 in more detail, to introduce the method and explain my thought process a little bit. Disclaimer: It should be noted the ESM-based lists are entirely based on ESM. Meaning, if some guy wasn't included in those lists I haven't even thought about considering them. Might be some really obvious guy who deserves to be in was never mentioned in them, but I highly doubt it. 2010-2015: Goalkeepers So, just picking the top 10 goalies from the ESM-list gives the following results: Manuel Neuer Thibaut Courtois Gianluigi Buffon David De Gea Petr Cech Victor Valdes Iker Casillas Joe Hart Roman Weidenfeller Edwin Van Der Sar Morgan De Sanctis Diego Lopez Jan Oblak Fraser Forster Vincent Enyeama Hugo Lloris First thing we'll do, is remove Van Der Sar and Oblak for not having the necessary amount of seasons. This would theoretically open the door for Leno and one of four other keepers. As we can see from the ESM-file, once we get to the bottom of the list, we have a ton of players inside just a couple of points of each other. So at this point it's better to use our wits rather than follow the list blindly. Guys like Forster and Enyeama don't really have the status to justify their place here, so they're getting dropped. Handanovic, Szczesny (yes) and Reina have a better claim, and are guys I would have picked if I hadn't used the list as a reference. International careers also factor in my estimation, though is not rigidly enforced. Players like Sirigu and Reina were generally picked over De Sanctis or Lopez, so that's taken into consideration. Leno and Ter Stegen are not picked because they didn't have the entire full 5 seasons playing as #1. That's not an automatic elimination, of course, but since they're in the periphery, anyway, and they'll probably get their spots in another era, it's an easy decision to drop them. Claudio Bravo is an example of the type of players whose peak falls awkwardly in-between the eras. Enforcing the rules rigidly, during this time he had three seasons of a lower profile in Real Sociedad, and might thus not have made it. He definitely deserves a spot in the top 16 of some era, and since it's definitely not 2015-2020, he's included here. So, here's the final list: Manuel Neuer Thibaut Courtois Gianluigi Buffon David De Gea Petr Cech Victor Valdes Iker Casillas Joe Hart Roman Weidenfeller Diego Lopez Hugo Lloris Salvatore Sirigu Claudio Bravo Samir Handanovic Wojciech Szczesny Pepe Reina Looking at this list, I'm thinking they're might be a couple of players that might cause critics to think "I don't think X deserves to be in", but there aren't really any keepers that make you go "Hey, Y absolutely should be there!". Next goalies from the list would be the likes of De Sanctis and Mandanda.
2010-2015: Fullbacks Moving onto the fullbacks, and I'm running into serious selection difficulties already. Here's the final list: RB: Dani Alves Sergio Ramos Philipp Lahm Branislav Ivanovic Pablo Zabaleta Stephan Lichtsteiner Juanfran Gregory Van Der Wiel Cesar Azpilicueta Lukasz Piszczeck Danilo Bacary Sagna Maicon Darijo Srna Seamus Coleman Javier Zanetti LBs: David Alaba Marcelo Patrice Evra Ashley Cole Luis Filipe Jordi Alba Leighton Baines Marcel Schmelzer Maxwell Jeremy Mathieu Ricardo Rodriguez Jan Vertonghen Aleksandar Kolarov Adriano Correia Fabio Coentrao Gael Clichy -There are a couple of players, like Ramos and Vertonghen, moved over from the CB-side, because there's more room here. -The ESM-lists have a certain amount of Big Club -centrism, IMO. Guys like Rafael, Jallet and Schmelzer were picked because they played for major clubs. Rafael has received a fair amount of votes, but he wasn't really first choice during this time, and doesn't have a very high pedigree. I feel like he could be dropped, so that's just what I'm going to do. Schmelzer stays in, though, because there's less competition for spots on the left side. -Seamus Coleman hasn't received a lot of votes, but I feel he's earned a spot on one of these lists. It looks unlikely he's going to make it for 2015-2020, so he's here. -Zanetti played for 3.5 seasons during this time. Might be grounds for dropping him, but he has the kind of legend-status that earns him a spot despite not playing for the full era or scoring a lot of ESM-points. -On the left-side, it looks like Abidal has received a bunch of sympathy votes by ESM. He was an old man by this time and wasn't a starter most of the time, so he's dropped. Don't feel bad for him, he'll (spoilers) make it in for 2005-2010. -Coentrao is in, though, because this was his peak era, even though he was a bench guy. Being a bench guy for Madrid or Barca is different from being a bench guy for some other teams, though. Tell me if I'm playing favorites here. -Reserves for the right side include Rafinha, Phil Jones and Jallet. Rafinha makes it for 2005-2010, so he's not here. Competition for the right-side was fiercer, looks like. Reserves for the left are Abidal and Monreal.
2010-2015: Centre-Backs Gerard Pique Mats Hummels Giorgio Chiellini Dante Thiago Silva Pepe Vincent Kompany Nemanja Vidic Diego Godin John Terry Andrea Barzagli Medhi Benatia David Luiz Martin Skrtel Miranda Jerome Boateng Andrea Bonucci Rafael Varane Per Mertesacker Neven Subotic Nicolas Otamendi Laurent Koscielny Gary Cahill Marquinhos Mamadou Sakho Martin Demichelis Rio Ferdinand Holger Badstuber Philippe Mexes Dan Agger Adil Rami Thomas Vermaelen -Reserves include Naldo, Lescott and Nkoulou -As we can see, the further down the list we go, the further we go into "well I dunno..." territory. If we included even more players, we'd run into the likes of Paolo Cannavaro and Jonny Evans. So I think 16 times 11 is the optimal number. -Puyol has scored a good number of votes here. He wasn't first choice for either club or country anymore, though, so it's better to drop him. -Surprised to see Naldo so high. I thought he was past his peak by now. He'll probably be included for 2005-2010. Lescott is the type of guy who, looking at the points, would just creep in both here and in 05-10. He's not really good enough to earn two spots, so he's making room for someone else here. -Badstuber and Vermaelen don't really have the necessary amount of full seasons to sneak in. This was the prime era for both, though, so I've decided to include them, anyway.Badstuber could maybe be dropped altogether? -Varane also wasn't first choice, but he's in due to high amount of ESM-points and what looks to be future legend status. Varane is going places while Puyol is winding down, so that's why Varane is included and Puyol not. -Don't laugh at Skrtel, Luiz, Demi or whoever being included. I had to draw the line on Phil Jones and Ranocchia, though. LMK if that was right. -Some players, like Marquinhos, just have the required 3 seasons during this time. They could be dropped if better choices emerge. -LMK if Rafinha, Monreal or some other FB deserves to be in over the bottom-ranking CBs here. I could move the likes of Ramos or Vertonghen back to CBs if necessary.
2010-2015: Defensive/Central Midfielders Xavi Andres Iniesta Arturo Vidal Yaya Toure Paul Pogba Andrea Pirlo Toni Kroos Xabi Alonso Bastian Schweinsteiger Luka Modric Ivan Rakitic Koke Ilkay Gundogan Javi Martinez Marco Verratti Jack Wilshere Claudio Marchisio Gabi Javier Mascherano Marouane Fellaini Sergio Busquets Miralem Pjanic Thiago Alcantara Ramires Nemanja Matic Blaise Matuidi Michael Carrick Daniele De Rossi Luiz Gustavo Fernandinho Joao Moutinho John Obi Mikel (Reserves: Nuri Sahin, Alex Song, Radja Nainggolan, Freddy Guarin) -If you see an obvious choice is missing, maybe they're in the AMF section? -Not quite sure what to do about Sahin. He's a bit of a one (couple) season wonder, who spent most of this era on the bench. But was he classy enough to earn a spot on one of these lists? Same with Alex Song. I've kept them out in favor of more consistent players like Moutinho and JOM. Nainggolan's time will come later.
2010-2015: Attacking midfielders / Wingers Gareth Bale Arjen Robben Eden Hazard Mesut Özil Cesc Fabregas Franck Ribery Mario Götze Angel Di Maria Isco Kevin De Bruyne Juan Mata Shinji Kagawa Alexis Sanchez Aaron Ramsey David Silva Frank Lampard Nani Antoine Griezmann Samir Nasri Santi Cazorla Wesley Sneijder Ryan Giggs Arda Turan Javier Pastore Steven Gerrard James Rodriguez Willian Hernanes Marek Hamsik Theo Walcott Oscar Jesus Navas (Possibles: Van Der Vaart, K-P. Boateng, Eriksen, Cuadrado, Mkhitaryan) - I threw in a bunch of winger-types to the forwards-section pretty much by random just so I could have both lists the same size. Makes things neater and less cluttered. - Looking at the reserves, VDV is in a winding down phase, Eriksen and Mickey are still getting started. K-P doesn't have the required pedigree, IMO. - Cuadrado is a tough one. During this time, he has two seasons getting started at Serie A, then two and a half seasons of being a star at Fiorentina, then half a season disappointing at Chelsea. 2015-2020 might be a better era for him, but looking now he hasn't scored any ESM-points. Should I just stick him in now? Is he a big enough name to warrant a mention in these lists? - De Bruyne had two seasons at Genk and half a season on the bench at Chelsea, but he's still in. - Nani had two seasons as a ManU bench guy and one season at Sporting during this era. He could be switched for someone else if necessary.
2010-2015: Forwards Lionel Messi Cristiano Ronaldo Zlatan Ibrahimovic Luis Suarez Robin Van Persie Radamel Falcao Diego Costa Sergio Aguero Wayne Rooney Marco Reus Neymar Edinson Cavani Robert Lewandowski Thomas Muller Mario Gomez Carlos Tevez Karim Benzema Pedro Rodriguez Mario Balotelli Daniel Sturridge Mario Mandzukic Francesco Totti Javier Hernandez Alvaro Negredo Antonio Di Natale David Villa Ezequiel Lavezzi Edin Dzeko Gonzalo Higuain Olivier Giroud Hulk Andre Schurrle (possibles: Eto'o, Berbatov, Huntelaar) - Forwards-section seems pretty slim. My gut tells me guys like Chicharito and Negredo wouldn't get a look in in other eras. I imagine in some other eras I'll be forced to leave out a lot of profilic strikers, but here there seems to be a bunch of guys that could get dropped. - Eto'o is a tough one, as he spent most of this era having a vacation in Dagestan. Should I include him? - Villa could be considered as being past it by this point, but probably still warrants inclusion. Didn't include Torres, though. Dude was just tragic during this era. - Diego Costa and Mario Gomez are others with sort of broken careers during this time, and could make room for other candidates. - I'm thinking Di Natale's prime was 05-10, but he doesn't seem to have any ESM-points during that time. Maybe I should just move him and his points to a different era? Can't be too rigid here.
That's all of 2010-2015 accounted for. It'll take me a couple of days to get 2005-2010 prepared. Would love to hear feedback before that.
For a thread about methodology, I think this is bad methodology. Players who's best season in between 3rd-7th, or 8th-2nd of an 'era' is at a severe disadvantage because they'd never be the greatest of any era even though they might have been the actual greatest, Wouldn't it be better to do a 10-year span era but in 5 years interval? So, something like: 2005-2015 2000-2010 1995-2005 1990-2000 etc
Nah, man. You can see from the noughties thread how downright impossible it is to determine the best players of an entire decade. In football, 10 years is an eternity. For example, what to do with a player who was kicking ass for 3 or 4 years, but played at a more modest level for the rest of the time? Besides, switching to 10 year eras wouldn't solve that problem you presented. Now, your suggestion of a parallel ranking does make sense, and is something I was thinking about. Something like 2013-2018, 2008-2013 etc. I might make one eventually, but I'll start with my original plan, because making two at the same time is a bit dull and repetitive.
I understand fully your methodology, and your comment here, but let me highlight that he remained a productive player until 2014 (for an attacking midfielder). He had 10+ assists in each season between 2010 - 2014, and 10+ goals (without pens) in two of them. He did that for quite different teams, contexts and different leagues. But yes, he got only 14 starts for the national team (7 non-pk goals, 3 assists) in this period 2010 - 2015 and playing for an ailing club team (as well as some other things) doesn't help for ESM.
Yes, VDV does have a decent case for inclusion, which is why I kept him on the reserves. He was pretty important for Tottenham, and I remember being pretty surprised at his move to HSV when it seemed like he was still going strong. Even lack of NT-caps isn't always a deal-breaker, since a lot of the times they're so dependent on the whims of the manager and over-elaborate coach-thinking, like not being able to play Sneijder and VDV together. But who do you think should make room for him?
I am not 100% sure but someone like Walcott or Navas I think. Navas was infamous for his lack of end product once he got to England. Walcott was never nominated for things as player of the year/season, let alone put on the shortlist. Maybe at a stretch Nasri, who really did not make his teams better. As you say above there is a Big Teams bias. But fully understand your methodology, for sure. Just wanted to highlight the production at different circumstances
2005-2010: Goalkeepers Petr Cech Julio Cesar Iker Casillas Edwin Van Der Sar Pepe Reina Gregory Coupet Jens Lehmann Gianluigi Buffon Victor Valdes Andres Palop Rene Adler Manuel Neuer Carlos Kameni Tim Wiese Shay Given Sebastien Frey Possibles: Heurelho Gomes Hugo Lloris Manuel Almunia Diego Lopez David James -This is a really crappy era for goalies. Seriously? There are like half a dozen guys that could be switched over if more worthy challengers emerged. -Coupet and Lehmann both lost their spots as #1 during this era. Due to their number of ESM-votes and the lack of challengers they stay in, though. -ESM would seriously offer the likes of Calamity James as possibles. And then we have Heurelho Gomes, an absolute clown show of a goalie.Pass, thanks. -Almunia looks to have benefited from big team favoritism. Diego Lopez has an incomplete era and was already part of 2010-2015. Same with, Lloris, who isn't really ready yet and will also probably make it for 15-20. All dropped. -I made up the numbers with the likes of Kameni, Given and Frey. Frey is a weird one, because he was continuously overlooked by NT-selectors.But there they are.
2005-2010: Fullbacks RB: Dani Alves Maicon Sergio Ramos Javier Zanetti Philipp Lahm Jose Bosingwa Gianluca Zambrotta Emmanuel Eboue Juliano Belletti Wes Brown Miguel John O'Shea Rafinha Darijo Srna Bacary Sagna Alvaro Arbeloa (Ivanovic, Ujfalusi, G. Neville) LB: Patrice Evra Giorgio Chiellini Paolo Maldini Ashley Cole Kakha Kaladze Eric Abidal Joan Capdevila Christian Chivu John Arne Riise Maxwell Marcelo Gael Clichy Fabio Grosso Gabriel Heinze Thomas Vermaelen Taye Taiwo (R. Carlos, Pernia, Van Bronckhorst) -Once again a bunch of CBs are included to make up the numbers. -Ivanovic spent a large chunk of this era in Zenit or Chelsea bench, so doesn't need to be in. I picked Arbeloa instead. -Carlos and Neville were on a downward slope, but still manage to make it for the possibles. -Just a note: For Brazil, this was supposedly a problem era for LBs, yet they have two guys here. For the NT, players like Gilberto, Andre Santos and winger Michel Bastos were tried instead. Nice job, guys. -Taiwo squeezes in because this is his prime era. The last spot was contested between Vermaelen and Gio Van B, who both make it in for other eras. Vermaelen won over because Ajax. Puck?
2005-2010: Centre-backs John Terry Rio Ferdinand Carles Puyol Nemanja Vidic Lucio Jamie Carragher Cris Christian Panucci Alessandro Nesta Walter Samuel Fabio Cannavaro William Gallas Daniel Van Buyten Pepe Kolo Toure Philippe Mexes Marco Materazzi Ricardo Carvalho Ivan Cordoba Martin Demichelis Per Mertesacker Naldo Alex Sami Hyypiä Luisao Juan Daniel Agger Nicolas Burdisso Sol Campbell Gabriel Milito Rafael Marquez Joleon Lescott (Bordon, Skrtel, Thuram, Kompany) -Much better era for CBs. I wanted to include Thuram despite it being an incomplete era, but couldn't really find space. -Surprised to see Cris ranked so highly. Lots of Brazucas in general. Technically, even Bordon would have made it in, but I don't think he has the pedigree. Naldo is a bit suspect in my book, too. I was thinking of a Bundesliga-bias, but then I realized most of the German-NT barely scored any votes during this era. Brazuca-bias?
2005-2010: Defensive/Central Midfielders Cesc Fabregas Xavi Andres Iniesta Esteban Cambiasso Michael Ballack Michael Essien Dejan Stankovic Daniele De Rossi Andrea Pirlo Paul Scholes Clarence Seedorf Patrick Vieira Mark Van Bommel Guti Xabi Alonso Deco Mahamadou Diarra Ze Roberto Michael Carrick Seydou Keita Marcos Senna Abatoliy Tymoshchuk Lucho Gonzalez Simone Perrotta Javier Mascherano Yaya Toure Gennaro Gattuso David Albelda Massimo Ambrosini Abou Diaby Claude Makelele Gareth Barry (Tiago, Alou Diarra, Toulalan, Frings, Park) -Centre-midfield is another position where the all-around quality maybe isn't as high as in other eras? But there are still a bunch of guys fighting for the last couple of spots. -Tiago is a weird one. A player who only played well when his contract was up. He's scored a lot of ESM-votes, but I don't think he warrants a spot. Tymo and Diaby the glass man are others who could make room. -The last spot was particularly up for grabs. Settled on Barry over the other ones.
2005-2010: Attacking Midfielders/Wingers Lionel Messi Cristiano Ronaldo Frank Lampard Ronaldinho Steven Gerrard Kaka Franck Ribery Juninho Pernambucano Arjen Robben Wesley Sneijder Mancini Robinho Diego Florent Malouda Rafael Van Der Vaart Andrei Arshavin Ryan Giggs Marek Hamsik Jesus Navas Luis Figo Adrian Mutu Alexander Hleb Mauro Camoranesi Bastian Schweinsteiger Maxi Rodriguez Dirk Kuyt Ludovic Giuly David Silva Nani Joe Cole Samir Nasri Pavel Nedved (Beckham, Julio Baptista, Quaresma) -Moved Messi, Ronaldo & co. from forwards to balance the posts out. We now have Messi and Schweini playing the same "position", but whatever. -This looks like a pretty strong era for AMFs. Makes sense, since it's the era of 4-3-3. I had to do a lot of switching around to fit in everybody I wanted to. Figo and Nedved still squeeze in, but Beckham was already on a vacation in the US, so I didn't feel he needed to be included.
2005-2010: Forwards Didier Drogba Samuel Eto'o Zlatan Ibrahimovic Wayne Rooney Luca Toni David Villa Francesco Totti Fernando Torres Thierry Henry David Trezeguet Alessandro Del Piero Karim Benzema Filippo Inzaghi Frederic Kanoute Diego Milito Raul Ivica Olic Emmanuel Adebayor Nicolas Anelka Diego Forlan Klaas-Jan Huntelaar Miroslav Klose Luis Fabiano Alexandre Pato Ruud Van Nistelrooy Mario Gomez Carlos Tevez Sergio Aguero Antonio Di Natale Claudio Pizarro Robin Van Persie Dimitar Berbatov (Defoe, Luis Suarez, Gilardino, Julio Cruz) -Another strong area during this era, at least in comparison to the first one I did. It'll be interesting to see how this theme continues. -I did manage to make room for Di Natale, so someone can take his spot for 10-15. -Pizarro should probably be moved over to 00-05, if there's space. Pato is first one on the chopping block if new challengers emerge. -Defoe scored well for ESM, but I don't think his achievements were enough. I saw him as second fiddle to Robbie Keane or Berbatov for Tottenham, and even Keane hasn't made it in.
I've noticed it's not possible to edit old posts on this board. WTF? Looks like all my choices are set in stone now. Nah, I'm still accepting possible suggestions. I'll just note them in my files. I've added Arbeloa, Höwedes and Cambiasso as possibles for 11-15. Maybe Poldi could make it in somewhere.
2000-2005 Things are starting to get more and more interesting the further back in time we go. The ESM-results for 00-05 are a bit unreliable, because the number of voters changed significantly during it, so it's more lopsided towards the 03-05 period. This unreliability is most noticeable in the fact basically all of the Stuttgart first 11 from 03-04 would make it into the top-players list according to ESM-votes. Now, I love Stuttgart as much as the next guy, but let's be honest... Don't worry, I'll work around it. Based on my original rough estimation, I was expecting it to get more difficult choosing between players the further back in time I went. But for this era it's actually the opposite! I had plenty of room to include all the deserving players, and I couldn't find any particularly strong challengers from the bottom of the ESM-votes. That's why there are a bunch of future legends that had an incomplete era included here, and a couple of semi has-beens. The only exception are the CBs, who seem like a pretty strong lot. Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon Oliver Kahn Iker Casillas Francesco Toldo Dida Santiago Canizares Jerzy Dudek Fabien Barthez Carlo Cudicini Jens Lehmann Vitor Baia Paul Robinson Shay Given Hans-Jörg Butt Edwin Van Der Sar Jose Molina (Coupet, Frey, Hildebrand) -Better era for goalies then the last one. - Hildebrand is a good example of the rampant Stuttgart-mania, actually receiving more points than any other goalie in 03-04. His Kicker-ratings don't really favor him, so I've dropped him. Hildebrand is like the main reason I came up with my 5-year system. -Paul Robinson is the first guy on the chopping block.
2000-2005: Fullbacks RB: Carles Puyol Cafu Lilian Thuram Javier Zanetti Michel Salgado Paulo Ferreira Jamie Carragher Gianluca Zambrotta Ciro Ferrara Willy Sagnol Gary Neville Christian Panucci William Gallas Geremi Lauren Miguel (Hinkel, Manuel Pablo, Belletti, Brown, Contra) LB: Roberto Carlos Paolo Maldini John Arne Riise Christian Chivu Vincent Candela Ashley Cole Bixente Lizarazu Giovanni Van Bronckhorst Wayne Bridge Patrice Evra Ian Harte Kakha Kaladze Gabriel Heinze Phil Neville Mickael Silvestre Serginho (Sylvinho) - Gallas in particular will love being turned into a FB, I'm sure. - Adenoid Hinkel is another one of the benefitters of the Stuttgart-mania. - Miguel was also part of the 05-10 era, so could make room. Evra or Candela on the left.
2000-2005: Centre-Backs John Terry Alessandro Nesta Walter Samuel Ivan Helguera Roberto Ayala Rio Ferdinand Fabio Cannavaro Lucio Ricardo Carvalho Sol Campbell Sami Hyypiä Daniel Van Buyten Jaap Stam Kolo Toure Fernando Hierro Ivan Cordoba Juan Philippe Mexes Noureddine Naybet Jens Nowotny Martin Keown Sammy Kuffour Marco Materazzi Jorge Costa Jorge Andrade Edmilson Igor Tudor Frank De Boer Christoph Metzelder Rafael Marquez Fernando Couto Marcel Desailly (Luisao, Bordon, Ismael, Marchena) - I had to do a lot of shuffling around, but managed to include everybody I wanted except one. Marcelo Bordon is still haunting me. Kicker rates him as the best defender in the Bundesliga, but I feel there are players that deserve to rank ahead of him based on their NT-careers. There's room in the fullbacks section, but can't really think of who to move over realistically. Tell me who to drop, if anyone. - Despite not having many ESM-points, Couto and Desailly have to be included due to them being clear starters for a NT that had a lot of representation here. - Marchena is also a back-up for 2005-2010. Should probably make room for him there.