How is that? Not true at all. Funny, I don't remember Ronaldo beating the likes of Nesta, Cannavaro, Thuram and Maldini, much less ridiculing any of them. I have found over time that many people like to exaggerate some facts about past players abilities. Zidane was the best player the world has seen since Maradona. But even he was not on the same level as the great Don Diego, although he came close bar one head-butt in 2006.
He was rewarded Serie A Footballer of the Year: 1997-98. Zidane's prime is nothing special to Ronaldo's prime. What are you talking about?
Yup and Ronaldo also won the UEFA player of the year award that season for his performances for Inter in the UEFA Cup. Also, just wondering here, do you have something specific against Zidane? Asking cause I saw you also mention him in the Fifa Balon d'OR thread while trying to throw a negative light on his performances for France in the WC 98.
I agree that Ronaldo was always the tip of the attack. Messi is not a true striker so he is expected to track back more (specially nowadays). But Ronaldo had many more runs from midfield than you think. But it's true that in those runs, he was almost always still the tip of the attack.
Club Titles: South American Cadet Championship (1) - 1992 Minas Gerais State League: 1993 Brazilian Cup (2) - Cruzeiro 93 & Corinthians 09 Campeonato Mineiro '94 - Cruzeiro. - Mineiro Championship with Cruzeiro. Netherlands Cup - PSV 96 Spanish Super Cup (2)- Barcelona 96, Real Madrid 2003. Copa Del Rey/ Spanish Cup - Barcelona 97 Cup Winners Cup - Barcelona 97 UEFA Cup - Inter 98 Tim Trophy - Inter 02 Trofeo Joan Gamper (1): Barcelona 96. Trofeo Birra Moretti Cup (2): Inter 01, 02. Intercontinental Cup - Real Madrid 02 Championship of Spain La Liga (2) - Real Madrid 03 & 07. Santiago Bernabéu Trophy (3): 2003, 2005, 2006 Naranja Cup of Valencia (Spain) (1): 2003 Real Madrid Memorial Jesús Gil Trophy (1): 2005 Real Madrid Xango Cup (1): 2006 Real Madrid Trofeo Luigi Berlusconi (1): Milan 2007 UEFA Super Cup (1): Milan 2007 FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2007 Taça dos Invictos (1): 2009 Corinthians (oferecida pela Federação Paulista de Futebol) Campeão Paulista (1): 2009 Corinthians Selecao Titles: Campeonato COMMEBOL Sub-16. - Commebol Sub-16 Championship. - Brazil 1991. South American Championship U-19 - Brazil 1993 UMBRO Cup - Brazil 1995. World cup (2) - Brazil 1994, 2002. Copa America (2) - Brazil 1997, 1999. Confederations Cup - Brazil 1997. Bronze medalist with Brazil at the Olympic Tournament (1996). Personal Awards: Ballon D' Or (2) - 1997, 2002. FIFA Player of the year (3) - 1996, 1997, 2002. Player of the year "World Soccer Award" (3) - 1996, 1997, 2002. Onze D' Or/Eleven of gold (2) - 1997, 2002. UEFA European Player of the Year (1) - 1998. UEFA Best Striker of the Year (1) - 1998. IFFHS' World' S Signal Goal Scorer of the Year (1) - 1997. Rec.sport.soccer Player of the Year Award (3) : 1996, 1997, 2002. Better hope evolving/moving in Europe "The Award Cheer/The Bravo Awards" (2) -1997, 1998. European gold shoe (1) - 1997 (34 goals). Rey del Fútbol de Europa (newspaper El País) (2) - 1996, 1997. Best foreign player of the championship of Spain (2) - 1997, 2003. Top Scorer of the championship of the Netherlands (1) - 1995. Top Scorer of the championship of Spain (2) - 1997, 2004. Italian League Player of the Year (1) - 1998. Italian League Foreign Player of the Year (1) - 1998. Super Copa Top scorer (1) - 1994. Mineiro Championship Top scorer (1) - 1994. FIFA World Cup Golden Ball/MVP (1) - 1998. Top Scorer of WC (1) - 2002 "8 goals". Top Scorer of Copa America (1) - 1999 "5 goals". Best Player of the Copa America (1) - 1997 World Sports Awards "Lareus" (2) - 2003. 'Personalidad Extranjera del Año' de la BBC/ BBC's Foreign Personality of the Year (1) - 2002. Top sportsman of the year "Reuters Magazine" (1): 2002 Gran Premio de la Academia Francesa de los Deportes (1) - 2002 (Ronaldo became the only second footballer to win this award the first one was PELE in 1970). el premio Príncipe de Asturias de los Deportes concedido a la selección de Brasil en pleno (1) - For the first time, this award was given to a FOOTBALL Team "The Brazilian National team of 2002"!!! MVP of the Intercontinental Final (1) - 2002. Best Male Soccer Player of the Year ESPY Award (1) - 2003. El Trofeo Comunidad Iberoamericana, uno de los Premios Nacionales del Deporte (1) - 2004. G.Q. Magazine Man of the Year Award (1) - 2004. Premio Gredos (1) - 2005. Top Scorer of South American WC Qualifiers (1) - 10 goals. "Only Zico and Romario have scored more goals than him (11)". La Liga's All-Time Brazilian Top Scorer (117) goals. (115 was the record). el Premio Brasil 2005 en la categoría Deporte y Cultura que ha concedido la Cámara de Comercio Brasil-España (1) - 2005 elegido el hombre más elegante de Brasil, según la revista "Istoé Gente" (1) 2005. receives the Number 1 Volunteer Diploma from Luis Fernando Hernandes, president of Brazil's Red Cross, during a ceremony at the Red Cross headquarters in Rio de Janeiro - (1) 2005 Bronze Shoe WC 2006 All-Time South American WC Top Scorer All-Time WC Top Scorer 15 goals 2nd All-Time Brazilian Top Scorer (62 goals). Golden Foot (1) - 2006. Campeonato Sudamericano sub-17 Top Scorer 8 goals (1993) Campeonato Mineiro/Cruzeiro Top Scorer 22 goals (1994) Oscar del calcio AIC 2007 (1): Campione dei campioni Award (2007) Premio Gianni Brera 2007 (1) : AC MILAN Deportivo del año 2007 Il Pirata d'Oro 1998 (1) Inter Milan 1998 Brazilian Football Museum Hall of Fame : 2008 (Inducted into the Brazilian Hall of Fame) FES Key to the City Award (1) 2008 : Ronaldo’s Friends vs Zidane’s Friends. O prêmio de craque do Campeonato Paulista 2009 (1): Corinthians 2009. I.R.E.O (Intergovernmental Renewable Energy Organization) IREO Renewable Energy Award (1) 2009: IREO Renewable Energy Award is a global awards program designed to recognize those at the forefront of energy innovation. O Fenômeno recebeu uma placa do presidente do Cruzeiro, Zezé Perrella & Colocou os pés na calçada da fama do Mineirão (1) 2009. Minutos antes do jogo entre Avaí e Corinthians (Atacante do Corinthians é homenageado pela diretoria do clube catarinense no estádio onde marcou o seu primeiro gol pela seleção), em Florianópolis, o atacante Ronaldo deixou a marca dos seus pés na calçada da fama da Ressacada (1) 2009. 'Brasileiro do Ano' (1) 2009 - Jogador recebe prêmio de 'Brasileiro do Ano' Goal.com - Striker of the decade award (1) - 2010 Goal.com - Player of the decade award (1) - 2010 Escolhido como 'craque superação' pela entidade Assembleia Legislativa de São Paulo (1) - 2010 Título de cidadão paulistano da Câmara Municipal/Title of citizen of São Paulo City Hall (1) - 2010 - ENOUGH SAID!
1. Is this why MALDINI considers him his toughest opponent along with Maradona? Is this why Sacchi considers him the greatest ever, after Maradona? Is this why CAPELLO claims he is the best player he has ever coached? (despite not getting along with him and forcing his RM exit) Is this why Buffon considers R9 his toughest opponent as well? Obviously you are just being biased 2. Zidane was better? Ronaldo (had gone through 2 knee injuries already)and Casillas carried RM for the longest. And don't make me talk about R9's prime.
Yes, but there was ONLY ONE "il fenomeno" in late 90's witnessed by ElCalcio and SerieA fans. They did NOT call Zidane, Sheva, Kaka, Del Pierro, Weah , Baggio such name did they? I am not sure you did watch SerieA in that 98 year but if you did, you should have known the fact that Ronaldo entered the SerieA and destroyed the so called "best defensive system" and demonstrated a good show since Maradona a decade ago! To Serie A at time it was a "phenomenon" and so the nick was born Maldini the best defender of this last generation has also claimed Ronaldo as the "most difficult opponent" to mark out since Maradona. Those awards were proofs of "appreciation" of Ronaldo's performance display in SerieA (hence the BEST of last decade 96-07) along with Maradona (80-90). Note that while "may other top players" (you mentioned) won many trophies , Ronaldo just TOPPED them with such awards I aggred and already confirmed in ealier post that Messi did more drribling runs. But that's also debatable, as Ronaldo has better succesful rate in less runs and mostly there was a goal at end result. C.Ronaldo, Figo and Ronaldinho also had put much more drribling runs that Ronaldo but so what? attempting is nice, but end results are ALL! Ronaldo was arguably the fastest in acceleration of last decade (his best time of 30m was among the worldclass sprinters) - ESPECIALLY WITH BALL on his feet! At best form 96-98, people simulated Ronaldo's run (~30-40m) and conclude he could finish 100m in less than 10.5sec (note that no point to time a footballer for 100m sprint because the whole pitch length is only 120m I donlt know what is your point of "lower center gravity" so what? Zico, Rivelino, Cruijff, Zidane Eusebio Van Basten ... were all TALL and very good to great in dribbling. Also, most worldclass sprinters are TALL and well BUILT (with muscle) not light!
This is irrelevant to the argument. The point is that people claim Ronaldo faced much tougher defenders in Serie A yet a ton of players who you probably can't even remember now were scoring just as many goals in Italy at the time. I've whose players embarrassed plenty of times but ok. This is a strawman though. Zanetti was arguably the best LB in Europe last season. That's nothing to be ashamed of. And if you actually watch Zanetti you know that he plays much much younger than his age suggests. He's still got a lot of pace. You really do find any excuse to try to downplay Messi's importance in Barca's team. It's kinda funny.
How is that irrelevant? The point is Ronaldo's level during that league, not how many goals he scored. The point is Ronaldo dominated that league and scored many great goals. Just like C.R. has more goals than Messi right now but no one is saying that Messi isn't dominating La Liga. You really do find any excuse to try to downplay Messi's importance in Barca's team. It's kinda funny. If I do, you do the same. You are totally discrediting Ronaldo's play that season because there was one person that year who scored more goals. And Messi playing with WC champs roster should be taken into account, when judging TEAM, key word TEAM, championships.
It's irrelevant because the context was in terms of defenders. If defenders where that much harder in Serie A then why did a bunch of no name players also score a lot? I have never discredited anything. I was simply pointing out that in a supposedly much superior defensive league other players were scoring just as many goals as Ronaldo was. That's not discrediting, he was clearly incredible that year. Its just a fact. Messi's influence on the team is much greater than that. It doesn't need to be taken into account just like the fact that Pele was playing with a bunch of WC winning star players should be held against him. And no I'm not comparing players. Messi just scored his 19th goal and had his 15th assist in 17 matches in La Liga. That mean's his been involved in over half the goals Barca has scored this season. His current influence in Barcelona surpasses anyone.
I think many of you clearly exaggerate some things regarding Ronaldo. Even if defenders like Maldini (the best one of all time IMO) and coaches like Capello say that he was the best they have played against or coached, it doesn't mean he dominated in Italy. It just speaks of his quality as a player/striker. If he was dominating as many of you say, he would've been top scorer in every season he played excluding when he was injured and/or he would've driven Inter to at least one Scudetto. If I recall correctly, he never became the top scorer in Italy even without the injuries and he never won the Seria A title (neither did he win the CL with any team he played for). As said by Dr. Know other less known players scored more goals and had some very good performances as well. During that period Seria A was the best League with the most superstars. It is hard to say that any player dominated in that league, although many had good performances. If however, some of you say that Ronaldo dominated in La Liga during his one season with Barcelona, then I would have to agree, as that was really true. Ronaldo's best was in that period, from 1996 to 1998. We all know that his two major injuries at Inter perhaps robbed him from longer period of greatness. On a club level, Messi's performances in the last two years reach that of Ronaldo's. And the only thing missing from a full equality is an excellent WC performance like the one Ronaldo had in 98 and 2002 to compliment Messi's status on national level as well. There is no disputing that fact. None of you guys should deny the fact that little Leo has been amazing on a club level though. And to say that he has been amazing because he plays with many of the Spanish WC champions is simply ignorant and plain "hate-ing". Xavi, Iniesta & Co just recently became World Champs, and Messi's brilliance still shines the brightest at Barca, before and after his spanish teammates' success.
Mixing Apples and Oranges, acceleration has nothing to do with how fast u can run the 100m, it means how fast u reach ur top speed. Messi's top speed is nowhere near Ronaldo but im pretty sure he accelerates faster to reach that top speed. To put it in perspective Messi would probably get the lead in the first few metres or so if they had a race but after that Ronaldo would catch him and outsprint him. Just check usain bolt, hes by far the fastest on the planet yet in the first few metres he rarely gets the lead, its in the later meters where he catches on and outsprints everyone like they aren't even there.
He was voted Seria A Best Footballer of the Year in 1998, and as someone pointed out best player in the UEFA tournament. How is that not dominating. And as many of you are misleading it was only 1 player who scored more than Ronaldo that year. (only by two goals). Not only that but he had a significant number of assits. But again dominance shouldn't be judged on how many goals and or assists a player makes in a given league. Dominance should be judged on performance, and clearly Ronaldo was the best. His goals were far better quality than the rest that season. Period. A title isn't as easy as that. There are dozens of factors that determine whether a team wins the league or not. And he won the UEFA cup isn't that good? Again Ronaldo had a fantastic season that year, you can't say that because he didn't win a title it was less impressive. Ronaldo's RM and AC Milan won the CL titles while he was there. But the fact that he couldn't play for two teams a season in the CL prevented from earning the title. He won Copa America that isn't a piece of cake title to win. Notice how Messi hasn't won it. I do recognize the greatness of Messi's last two Leagues. They were excellent comparable to Ronaldo in the late 90's. All I say is that the team titles he wins are with an excellent team (especially CL). (If it weren't for Iniesta Barcelona wouldn't have gotten past Chelsea in 2009.) Would Messi win all those titles if he were playing with Valencia or Sevilla? Would he win them if he were playing for Arsenal? Who knows. I don't take away from his individual performances but as far as CL and league titles he isn't playing with chumps. Messi' outshines the rest true, but isn't a one man team.
What are you talking about? in that season Roberto Baggio, Gabriel Batistituta, Alessandro de Pierro got close to scoring as many goals as Ronaldo those aren't exactly "no name players" they are great players. Only won who scored more than Ronaldo in Serie A 98 was Oliver Bierhoff, who scored 37 goals for germany (something Messi is nowhere close to) including in WC and Euro. If he isn't famous or anything, who cares.
No I don't have anything against Zidane. I just was repeating what a french journalist in a documentary about Zidane in the 98 WC said. He said that Zidane didn't really have great games untill the final. He may be wrong though. But as far as prime goes Ronaldo's prime far exceeds Zidane's. Zidane is more known for his longetivity as a world class player and his performances in the WC than his extraordinary prime compared to Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo, Cruyff etc.
Go look at some of the other players on the list. In fact look at the top scorers not only that year but the years around it. Amoroso won the to scorer prize in 98-99 FFS. You really are obsessed with bashing Messi aren't you? Why on earth you would compare the international goals of a player who's retired to Messi who is 23. This is getting desperate.
I wouldn't be so sure Ronaldo wins, at age 23 he had only the two Copa Americas...I would discount WC 94 as he played no part on it. Messi has won a Youth WC and the Olympics by the same age. At club level, Messi has two Champions League and three league titles, against none by Ronaldo by that age.
He also had the great WC in 98. Being the best of that Brazil team by far. In fact that Brazil wasn't considered to go very far, Ronaldo was their main hope, and he came thrue, lifting his team all the way the to the final. Also he had a good WC Qualifying before that. Ronaldo had performed well in four different clubs up to this age, had shown he could adapt to different players and styles. He led his team Cruzeiro to their first Copa do Brasil. Also had won UEFA Cup with Inter being the best in that tournament and scoring in the final. He was voted the best player in Seria A in 98. Won the Cup, SuperCup and UEFA also scoring in the final with Barca. He held his own in club. Also if you aren't going to count 94 WC, then don't count 06 Champions League for Messi as that was won by Ronnie and Etoo.
Another myth backed up by the ridiculous Golden Ball award - Rivaldo was better. Who scored the game winning AND game tiening goal agains Denmark? Who assisted Ronaldo's goal in the 1/2-final, which was in fact 2/3 of the work?
Brazil did not have to qualify for 98. And then he barely played for 02 WCQ because of his injuries. Actually I don't even remember if he played at all. In truth he only played WCQ for 2006. In 98 Brazil were actually favorites to win it all. We had loads of talent with Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Denilson, Bebeto. But the team never clicked and got to the Finals based on individualism.
Ronaldo had 2 assists in the Denmark game. The first one was a beautifully weighed ball to Bebeto. The Holland goal...2/3 of the work ? I don't think so. Ronaldo's ball trap while fighting the defender is an amazing piece of skill. In fact, he had an amazing game. He had the Dutch defenders hacking him all night long and had them making some desperate last minute goal saving tackles. This game was one of Ronaldo's best games for Brazil even though he only scored once. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dENQn6hCU&feature=related"]YouTube - Ronaldo Brazil VS Hollande 1998 By FabZ[/ame]
A couple of just plain wrong things in your post. First of all ... WTF is El Calcio ??? You really don't make yourself look good when you say something like this. Then ... Zico and Rivelino were 5 ft. 7 and 1/2. Messi is just shy of 5 ft. 7.
Might notice that I responded on '(Ronaldo) being the best of that Brazil team by far.' which is a rather bold statement as Rivaldo had similiar - in my opinion even greater - contribution to that team advancing to the finals. And that's taking nothing away from Ronaldo.
I'll second this. Honestly I've no idea how Charlie could assume that Brazil - defending World Champion, Winner of the last Copa America + Confed Cup - was considered an underdog going into the tournament back in 1998.