a goal in such important game might change the whole scene! Most league winner decided with few big games vs their rival. Juve were morelikely to win 2 to 3 last games than Inter would have, so a lost to Juve like a splash of cold water to new build Inter hope that time Ronaldo was on fire in that year, scored passed loko in round 16, he got injured just before quarter vs Manu 1st leg, returned socred a hat trick to help Real advance, scored 1goal vs Juve in semi 1st leg, injured in 2nd leg, and came off from bench to win that PK.
"One can say that Ronaldo is a worse choice to build your team around (than Messi)" I might add "on a club level". Ronaldo's a better choice for the NT based on his sucess. This is not based on Ronaldo's performance on the pitch but rather on the fact that he played for 4 different teams in just 5 years. You can't build your team (longterm) around a players who isn't loyal and changes his team after each season.
Well, yes or no. Messi was a golden boy at Barca since day 1, and has NOT YET proven otherwise - I think he can adapt well BTW Ronaldo was moved from1 club to another in very short period - true (at same age Ronaldo had already played for 4 different teams than Messi) but this does not solidly drive to the making up of your "bold statement" - irrelevant All I can say is that INJURIES was the major downfall of Ronaldo for "ANY TEAM" to rely on
It's obvious as far as peformances and championships Ronaldo wins. However, what about pure talent/skill level. Who is a better player individually?
Would be interesting to see Messi on a different team in a different league even if it's in the twilight of his career. Adapting well for sure .. but the same kind of dominance? Injuries were the downfall of Ronaldo - inevitable in my opinion which were a caused by Ronaldo's style of play. Lots of discussion about this topic already.
Edge for Ronaldo in goal scoring instict (whether his stats indicate it or not), athleticism, clutch performance and speed/acceleration. Dribbling, shot, playmaking, Football IQ, versatility position wise, durability, freekick (after recent improvement) in favour of Messi. Technique and work ethics - Ronaldo coming back from injury and Messi improving his weaknesses - on par.
Overall your points are good spot. Except the bold parts are debatable. - Shooting (or Shot) no doubt Ronaldo was better especially from 18-24yeards (just outside the box). Even inside the box, Ronaldo's cool finishing touch is among TOP5best all time - Dribbling: At "FIRST GLANCE" , yeah many would tempt to agree that Messi might edge out Ronaldo - for his number of dribbling runs so far. However, IMO, it's still debatable, as Ronaldo did not do dribbling that much, but his "successful rate" is so high especially 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 (compared to Messi). Plus, the effectiveness following dribbling action of Ronaldo was also higher: whenever he did, most often there was a goal result or so. - Football IQ: This is so vague and hard to judge them. Messi played and surround with a "most smooth operating" team in the world at present (Barca 07-10) so his performance, passing , movement are easier to be SPOT or ACKNOWLEDGED. Whereas Ronaldo constantly CHANGED teams (different team mates, different playing style) Yet he still delivered! Since you have listed out "playmaking" as separate category, do NOT mix up thsi inside the IQ
I will give small advantage to Ronaldo only on shooting/finishing and pace. Messi has a small advantage in dribbling, because he does it in tighter spaces and from deeper positions, and in acceleration/agility as well. Technical ability is about equal. Passing, intelligence, work ethic and teamwork all are in Messi's favor. I'm not a big fan of comparing players based on team trophies, but for argument sake I will say that while Messi has done nothing on National level, he has won far more trophies on club level than Ronaldo. It is interesting to note the fact that Ronaldo never won the CL even though he played for 5 different European clubs, all as previous winners of the competition. For me the amount of team trophies doesn't always tell the difference between players. Is Ronaldo better than Cruyff or is Cannavaro better than Maldini, because they won the WC? Lastly, the fact that Messi most likely will never play for another European club (I hope he never does) should not detract from his greatness/brilliance. Is Paolo Maldini any less of a defender because he never played for another team in another league?
Agree. But not because to prove others that he could adopt in another league (and team), but just for the fun of it. Its always interesting to see great players play for different teams and try themselves in different leagues.
In terms of NT yes. But in terms of championships at the club and in the international club level Messi has Ronaldo beat.
What does work ethic mean ? If you mean training, etc ... then at 23 there is no difference that really shows up on the field. If you mean hustling in the field including defense then it's a different story.
Work ethic = commitment and effort at practice. I have been reading a lot that Messi loves to practice and enjoys himself there as much as in games. He comes back from breaks earlier and can't wait to get going again. He is not a slacker and there haven't been reports of him partying late. Work rate = effort and commitment to work hard for the team during games. Messi does that more than Ronaldo did as well. Both work ethic and work rate show on the field at any age.
How's Messi a better dribbler? Ronaldo dominated la liga and SERIE A! R9 faced tougher defenders and in tougher leagues!
Wasn't this debunked already showing the list of not that great players who were scoring just as much in Serie A during Ronaldo's time there? Oliver Bierhoff finished with more goals than Ronaldo in the 97-98 season. There are other names on the top 10 who aren't exactly legends.
Ronaldo has more tricks, but Messi maintains control in tighter spaces and his runs are from deeper positions. Plus I don't think Ronaldo dominated in Italy.
He was named as best player in Italy 1998 (scored 25goals among rare players who done it first time in SerieA) - It's NOT the number of GOALS scored (as some thought) that made Ronaldo famous, but his STYLE and the HOW he scored his goals. Hence the nick IL FENOMENO was given by Italian press ... in early 98. In 2007, Ronaldo was (again) named as the BEST player of SerieA of the whole decade 96-2007 by El Calcio (beating Zidane, Totti , Sheva, Kaka , Buffon, Canavaro ...) despite of the fact he played in much less games than them (less than 2 full seasons for Inter 98-2002 and less than 1 full season for Milan (2007)
I also have to contest this. Deeper position meaning from midfield ? Ronaldo did use to start many of his runs from the midfield. His acceleration was also amazing.
Yes, but Ronaldo was chosen best player of the league that year, so why does it matter if others scored more than him. Besides, it's arguing dribbling, not goalscoring. I would edge Ronaldo on dribbling because he has better physical attributes (speed, acceleration, power) to get through players. Also has more tricks to pull out of his sleeve if defenders give him trouble. Also, very important, Ronaldo can get past defenders while at a standstill, Messi not so much, he needs movement, to be more effective.
Yeah but I don't remember anyone else ridiculing the likes of Nesta, Cannavaro, Thuram, Maldini, etc. The way O fenomeno did. Messi had a hard time against a 37 year old Zanetti for crying out loud. Both are great dribblers but when R9 used to take off there was no stopping him.
Ronaldo vs Messi Is the new Pele vs Maradona O Fenomeno is the best footballer the world has seen after Maradona, simple as that!
Not only with him but had trouble with Sneijder, who isn't even a defender! Ronaldo defined Joga Bonito, his dribbles, his tricks, his moves, his technique, his power, his speed/acceleration, his stats, all of this while being a prolific goalscorer. And yes it is the new Pele vs Maradona discussion.
But these awards don't prove he dominated. There were many other top players playing in Italy at the same time who were holding their own quite well and winning titles.
Yes deeper as in from midfield. Ronaldo did have some runs that started from midfield as well like the goal vs Celta. But Messi has far more frequent ones, because he has a different individual instructions to drop in to deeper positions which Ronaldo didn't have while playing mostly on the tip of the attack. And yes Ronaldo had acceleration too, but Messi's is better as he is lighter, lower to the ground and more agile. It's simply physics.
Nice observation. Messi is playing with the base of the world champs. Gives new meaning to team championships he wins for club.