Messi, the most undeserving winner of the Golden Ball

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by YankBastard, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally I don't think he deserves it. He wasn't even the most valuable player for Argentina, much less the world cup.
     
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  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Here's something for you to chewed on.

    In 2006 France failed to win their first 2 WC games and Zidane contribution was 2 yellow cards. France needs 2 clear goals in final game and they did so without Zidane. Zidane had 3 good games and then earned a red card in the final. He was golden ball winner.
     
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  3. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    So Zizou makes it okay for this FIFA award to be a mockery? He wasn't the best player at this World Cup and he wasn't the best player on his own damn team.
     
  4. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Mascherano deserved the golden ball... but its called the Addidas Golden Ball... Who's the poster child of addidas?
     
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  5. bsas

    bsas Member

    May 27, 2004
    Switzerland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    To be frank, I was also surprised when he was announced. But on the other hand, I don't see another player that is clearly above him if you count in impact on the actual team results. Messi was the clear factor of us winning our first *FOUR* games. That is quite impressive. The fact he has faded in the last games, due to a more defensive strategy and also inefficiency of the other forwards receiving his passes, should not make us forget that amazing feat, where people were saying Argentina was only Messi.
     
  6. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Romero, the back four, Mascherano, Biglia and Perez deserve it. That was the best defensive performance from us in a long while which shows what a proper coaching staff can acheive. Only to be let down by the numpties upfront.
     
  7. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #7 Rattlehead, Jul 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    Here's the problem, if they gave it James Rodriguez, some will also disagree because his team only reached last 8.
    Since when top goalscorer means best player? Gary Lineker finished as top scorer with 6 goals but out in QF. Schilaci scored 6 and was top scorer but golden ball went to Lothar Matthaus who scored 4 goals. Davor Suker scored 6 but best player in 1998 went to Ronaldo despite Ronaldo disappeared without goal in semifinal and final and Brazil were goalless in their last 2 games. Mario Kempes didnt scored a single goal at group stage in 1978, he won golden ball.

    Messi directly involved in 5 out of 8 Argentina's goal, one of them was an own goal came from his cross too, he played part in goal against Belgium, did his job in the shootout against Holland. That left only one Argentina goal that did not involved Messi, Rojo's goal against Nigeria because he has been taken out at an hour mark.

    Feel free to disagree but you'll still need to explain those points above, why do you think those previous golden balls winner deserve theirs? So I rest my case right there.
     
  8. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ronaldo actually scored in the 98 semi final vs Holland.
     
  9. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Sorry yea that was 1-1, but his performance in that final was worst than Messi in 2014 final. Also he didnt score when Brazil lost against Norway plus one of his goal was a penalty.

    Why dont people say Batistuta deserve that golden ball because he scored 5 goals in 5 matches? Ronaldo 4 goals in 7 matches. Isnt that what people arguing about between Messi and James Rodriguez?
     
  10. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You see there is the problem. I am not saying anything about top scorer, simply that there were better options with James Rodriguez being one of three not including Messi. With him it wasn't just his scoring but his role and effect on his teams play in a much more consistent manner. When you look at the players he had around him compared to what Argentina had and it makes his performance stand out that much more. That isn't taking anything away from his teammates because Colombia is a talented side with a very good coach but they are the "fab four" nor do they have a Mascherano anchoring down the back line. The argument easily could also be made for Mueller and to a slightly lesser degree Robben.

    What it ultimately comes down to is that those players aren't Messi and they were more consistent than Messi sans maybe Robben. Messi regressed as the WC went on. He had his chances in the final and ultimately shit his pants. You want proof? How about that free kick to end the game? Did he seriously believe that he had a chance at scoring from that distance? What he needed to do was loft that ball into the box and hope for something crazy and lucky to happen. That shot he took was the shot of a desperate kid that ran out of clues.

    He may have played a huge part in the group stages but lets not forget that it was the defense that really got us to the elimination rounds. If they play as porous as they had been playing then the offense that Messi provided would be much to little.

    This was his best chance to lift the Cup and stake his true claim to greatness. In four years he'll be older, slower and tired.
     
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  11. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The best player in this tournament was Masche, hands down. I don't care how many goals James scored, or Mueller, Messi, Robben or anybody. In the last 3 or 4 games, nobody was better than Masche.
     
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  12. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  13. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi is just as consistent as James Rodriguez for the fact he created most chances for his team in this WC according to the stats. If Higuain, Palacio and Kun wasted every one of those, it wasnt his fault. Especially Palacio who missed 1v1 against Holland after nice setup by Messi and again missed from same situation in the final.

    When Di Maria finished off Messi's pass against Swizterland, everyone was praising Messi's pass but when Palacio , Kun and Pipita wasted that, they blame it on Messi. Sounds about right.
     
  14. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Pele wasnt among top 3 goal scorer in 1970, he was given the golden ball.

    Zidane not only earned red but he was booked in first 2 games and his team failed to win those games. When they needed 2 clear goals in third match, they did it without the golden ball winner. Add a red card in the final and you got a deserving golden ball winner.
     
  15. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As another poster commented in another thread: If Messi won the Golden Ball and did exactly what James did, people would still be saying Messi didn't deserve it.
     
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  16. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    People will hate on Messi no matter what. Had we won this World Cup, people would bitch and say "Oh... Messi had an easy route... Oh Messi, didn't score in the KO stages". People will always hate on him. And let them, who gives a damn. They are just upset that he is tormented their beloved team in the past, but yet.... He is not good enough. Haters are gonna hate. It's nothing new.
     
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  17. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You know what, we're all arguing about this while Messi himself dont give a single fck on this award.:laugh:
     
  18. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hahah. Good point, I hope he has the resilience to bounce back!
     
  19. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You are quick to point out the others that failed to put away their chances but ignore the fact that Messi couldn't put away his chance in the final. Why is that?

    Messi is held to a higher standard because he is Messi. Zizou and Forlan at the time weren't considered hands down the best player in the world. In fact they may not have been the best player in their respective national teams.

    I posted elsewhere that Messi was huge in the group stages and the goals he scored or assisted in were important but not so much so that had the defense played as expected those goals wouldn't have been enough.

    Now how about the 1v1 that Messi failed on against Germany?
     
  20. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maradona also missed few chances in 1986 final, he also failed with his freekick in that final so what's your point?

    The biggest difference between the two would be the fact Burruchaga burried Maradona's pass into the net while Palacio and Kun didnt. Valdano didnt miss 1v1 in that first half while Pipita did.
     
  21. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Diego did miss those chances but when all was said and done he and the team still lifted the trophy and I'm fairly certain that at no point in that final did he ask Bilardo to make a substitution that basically shot the team in the foot.

    My point is simple, RoPa, Kun and Pipita do deserve their fare share of criticism and in fact more of it. The problem is that you continue to blissfully ignore two very important facts.

    1. Messi blew an opportunity that he has probably finished nearly 100 times in his career. In all fairness to Palacio, Messi's chance was much easier than Palacio's and it was only moderately less difficult than that thing that impersonated a shot on goal from Pipita.

    2. Of Palacio, Kun and Pipita, none of them are on the level that Messi has been nearly his whole career nor collectively are they on the same level as Messi at any point. Messi is rightfully held to a higher standard than the aforementioned three muertos as he should be, he is the best player of his generation by far and when he played a part in the failure that was this final he should get shit.

    The thing that really bothers me about how quickly you are absolving him of any responsibility is that it takes away from the one thing we truly had to celebrate...our defense.

    Garay, Rojo, Michu and Romero truly played outside of themselves, they put up performances that were a million miles away from what any of us dreamed they were capable of. They put us in a position to win this final, they kept a clean sheet for nearly 120 minutes against a fantastic team playing fantastic football. Zabaleta was also solid after a sketchy first match, hell Basanta even showed well in his appearance.

    Notice how I hadn't mentioned Mascherano yet? HE was far and away our most important and consistent player this entire tournament. He started off with one bad half and from there played outside of himself and was in my opinion far and away the most dominating player in this entire World Cup bar none. When he needed his defense to improve, it did. When he needed to be a distributing factor he made some amazing passes over the top of defenses. Hell, he even started bringing the ball up the pitch. He got outside his comfort zone and showed true leadership on this team.

    By lowering expectation on Messi and making excuses for why he deserved the award does nothing but crap all over what an amazing tournament Javier Mascherano had for Argentina and football.
     
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  22. bsas

    bsas Member

    May 27, 2004
    Switzerland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  23. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It wasnt scandal for the fact I already mentioned above. Zidane in 2006 only had 3 good games while Ronaldo in 1998 had 4-5 good games, Pele in 1970 only scored 4 goals and wasnt among top 3 goalscorer in that tournament.

    Nobody other than Diego dominated from start to finish. So to say Messi do not deserve that just because he didnt have few good games is absurd cause neither Muller has. Rodriguez you could argue but I dont believe they will ever give it to quarterfinalist.
     

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