Meola Thread ("It's the second worst move in MetroStars history", etc.

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by MetroFever, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Perhaps Tony's ego is getting a little too big even for him?


    "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history," said Meola of the trade that sent him and Alexi Lalas to Kansas City for Mark Chung and Mike Ammann. "Getting rid of Peter Vermes was the worst move in the history of that organization. That's the first, second and third worst move, getting rid of Peter Vermes."

    "This, I'm starting to read the writing on the wall," said Meola. "(With the MetroStars), it was 5 p.m. on Tuesday and they told me there was no way they were trading me, and by 9 a.m. the next morning I had been traded.

    Meola downplayed the possibility of returning the Metros, but admits that anything is possible in MLS.



    http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr...lRUV5eTY2MTI4NjcmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
     
  2. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    but he's right about #1. If ever there was a guy who bled Metro, Vermes was it.
     
  3. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Vermes was the leader we are searching for now. Plus he wasnt that bad. He wasnt a star but he wasnt a bad person to have on the field specially with all the leadership qualities he brought in.
     
  4. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    As evidenced by the MLS Cup he helped bring to the Wizards in 2000.
     
  5. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    The stupidity of the Vermes trade aside, Meola putting trading himself at #2 shows himself to be just an arrogant prick. That trade wouldn't even make the top ten of Worst MFO Player Decisions Ever.

    You got the ring, Tony, just like a lot of other ex-Metros have. Just leave it at that.
     
  6. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Obie - notive we were ignoring that part of the statement
     
  7. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Who was Vermes traded for?
     
  8. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Kerry Zavagnin - who then went back to KC and played well.

    yet another player who was excellent throughout his MLS career save his years with Metro. Amazing innit?
     
  9. Bora Fan

    Bora Fan Member

    Dec 14, 1998
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    It's easy to look back and call those trades bad moves.

    The reality is that for most fans - they were applauded.

    1. Vermes and Zavagnin
    Vermes was not playing well when he was traded and was not having the kind of positive impact on players and the team that were producing results.

    It took getting traded to finally make the adjustment wholeheartedly to the idea that he had no business playing the midfield or up front - that if he was going to compete in MLS he needed to embrace the defensive role he would be good at.

    It also took him being forced to work on all of this in isolation in KC and with a defense first kind of coach like Gansler. Hats off to Vermes for pulling it off and become a great defender - while a MetroStar we caught him in the painful transition - where I believe he struggled to accept it and make the adjustments he later did for Gansler.

    2. Zavagnin was one of the worst players in a Metro uni this side of Ed Rodriguez. Call it a lack of confidence - a lack of understanding of what he was good at - but when you end up in the A-League it's not because someone in MLS overlooked you - it's because you are playing at the A-League level. Again though - hats off to Zavagnin for taking that step and doing something about it - building his game - and then working with Gansler to simplify his game around what he discovered he was good at.

    Would Bob Bradley have run things differently? Who knows - maybe he would have pulled the same trades - just bring in different players who would still be here - and we could point to and feel better about the trades because we got something tangible instead.

    At the time thought - you have to understand that we were not losing talent - we were losing liabilities with these two otherwise other teams would have been clamoring to pick them up.

    Lalas and Meola

    1. Lalas was not a big loss - they guy was ready to be a musician the year we got him - it just took a little time for him to figure that out. Outside of the year in LA when he had something to prove to Sigi - he had issues with every team he played on. He had issues with Sampson, he had issues with NE's first coach who (admittedly sounded like an ass) benched him and he had issues with Metro management. I think even MetroFans ended up booing him the first couple of games - given how poorly he was performing.

    2. Meloa was not the happiest camper and frankly needed a change of scenery. Totaly don't agree with the being told you aren't being traded and then stabing him in the back - but you can't argue that the move didn't help Tony book his ticket to WC02. Before KC Meola didn't have a prayer of being picked for the WC team. Also - does anybody forget that Amman was one of the best liked MetoStars players in history? Amman was much more fan friendly and team inspiring than Meola was - do we quickly forget all of Meola's yelling at players etc? And as far as Chungy goes - he was a solid player - he was part of the team that almost beat Chicago were it not for Razov's heroics that kept us from going to an MLS Cup. I think getting Chung was an upgrade while it lasted.

    I'm not living in the past - the new team in charge has it's own challenges and will find it's own solutions.

    It's important though to view trades based on the context of the time they occured - not on the ending result years later - sure you can measure the success of the trade based on 1/2 of that - i.e. are the MetroStars better off today having made those moves - but you can't look at how those players traded produced for other teams. There is no way they would do the same for the MetroStars teams of that same period.

    Having said all of this - I do think the trades can be viewed as successful and not the worst decisions in team history.

    The MetroStars were far more competitive with Amman and Chung after trading Lalas and Meola - in the year we challenged Chicago.
     
  10. subbuteo

    subbuteo New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    He played great in the years leading up with WC02, but you also have to look at who was the US National team coach for WC02... Not sure how much him being on one team v. another would have impacted his WC selection. I guess it always will be open for debate, though.
     
  11. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    about 10k Metro fans got turned off by how the MFO dealt their favorite players, and some of this fans never returned and its not that they were traded but how and for what

    Some of the players may not have been most productive, but they were the heart of the team and loved by the fans

    I wish i can say they(MFO) learned from the past mistakes , but marketing was never a strong point for this organization
     
  12. CrazyG

    CrazyG New Member

    Dec 19, 1998
    Manahawkin, NJ
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    All due respect to Fat Tony...One of the worst trades was not the trade for Chung and Ammann, but it was the trade of Chung to Colorado. Because he was at the end of his career. Yea Right! We still haven't completely filled that spot on the roster.

    I also hated seeing those pictures of Mike Petke celebrating the MLS Cup Victory. Happy for him, pissed that he wasn't wearing a Metro Jersey while doing it. Of course, if he were still with Metro, we all know that he wouldn't be celebrating that victory for another what 10 years?! :confused:


    Starting to feel like the Red Sox here. Although, I'm not waiting 86 Years for a championship.
     
  13. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Zavagnin's main problem with the MetroStars is that he needs to play in the middle. He doesn't play on the left and he doesn't play on the right - and certainly not as a right back. The Metros asked him to return in '99, but opted to take a chance at playing a full season in the middle for Lehigh Valley as opposed to continually diminishing minutes as a right back in New Jersey. If he had returned to the Metros, he might very well be out of soccer today.

    But to be fair to the MetroStars - they had to guys in the middle named Donadoni and Ramos. The fact that Zavagnin failed to impress as a right back, wasn't really the team's fault.
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Mike was also loved by the fans in Kansas City, and apparently later in DC, too. Ammann was definitely a guy you wanted on your side in a fight.

    I think - prior to the ankle injury - one of the things that keyed Meola's improvement this year is that he pretty much stopped yelling at his defenders. He's got kids and religion now, maybe he finally realized that all the yelling was counterproductive.
     
  15. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    and i might ad this Bradley getting rid of the most popular Metro a player who had his heart in the team saying he would be a Metro forever, LOL, yeah right

    "Add defender Mike Petke to the ever-growing list of former MetroStars who had to go elsewhere to play in a MLS Cup final and win a championship.

    Petke, arguably the most popular player in MetroStars history, was traded to D.C. United on Dec. 23, 2002, two months after Bob Bradley was hired as coach.

    Petke always said he wanted to be a MetroStar for life and win championships here. Now he joins Peter Vermes, Tony Meola, Alexi Lalas, Zach Thornton, Kerry Zavagnin, Manny Lagos, A.J. Wood, Diego Sonora, Ramiro Corrales, Ezra Hendrickson and Troy Dayak as those who had to leave to play in a final and get a ring....
     
  16. budalabutt

    budalabutt Red Card

    Nov 4, 2004
    Chi-town
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"


    Getting rid of Tony was the dumbest move on their part!! WHo has been a bigger keeper for them since??

    Arrogant because he is stating the truth??? I think not.
     
  17. Congorilla

    Congorilla New Member

    Feb 18, 1999
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Vermes was much more than not that bad. My memory hole might betray me but I believe he was Defender of the Year in 2000 and marshalled the KC D from that year that was prolly the best in MLS history.

    As for the trades... Since Vermes and Meola both wear championship rings and Sorber, Amman, and Chung DON'T, kinda hard to say Tony is wrong. But Tony DOES seem to have forgotten WHY he got traded;

    His mutinous, bush league locker room recording of Mondelo that submarined the coach and opened the door for Bora Bora football.
     
  18. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Looking at Meola's 2000 MVP season after the trade is revisionist history -- he had the advantage of a real, cohesive defense in front of him, something that he would never have had here had MFO not traded him. Also, I can't think of any season since '99 where fate turned against us due to bad GK play. About the only thing that would be different here if we hadn't done that deal is that we would have likely been consistent in goal -- no Timmy, for example. Meola wouldn't have delivered us a title in anything.

    Like I said, he got his ring, but that doesn't make him super-special in the growing universe of ex-Metros. We've had lots of worse trades, cuts, star player signings, draft picks, benchings, fist fights, hot tub events, and anything else you want to add in there.
     
  19. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    This rosy account fails to acknowlege the fact that Petke was about three pegs lower than Marco Etcheverry on the Metrofan popularity meter when he was dealt. Meola, Lalas, Petke, Jolley, Faria, Walsh etc etc while one-time Metrofan darlings, were all pretty well despised at the time they were dealt/waived. The only two Metro fan favorites who were still fan favorites when they were shipped out (from what I remember) were Savarese and Ammann.
     
  20. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    If you were talking girth, yeah you gotta point.

    But Amman was pretty damned good also

    and there was some Howard guy who was decent enough. I wonder what the hell ever happened to him?
     
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Another thing you're overlooking is Tony's injury in 1999. He came into the 2000 season in the best shape of his career - and the knowledge of just how fragile that career could be. Don't underestimate the added motivation of what he went through in 1999 - which wasn't the MetroStars fault.
     
  22. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    damn - I never knew that.

    Congorilla - somebody should write a history of the first crap ten years and all the crap dealing that went on.


    (BTW - what's up with the metrofanatic board?)
     
  23. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Do you mind filling in oblivious Metro fans like me? I don't seem to recall that.
     
  24. Olesh

    Olesh Member

    Jul 24, 1999
    South Bay
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    Tony is one of the most unfairly criticized players in US Soccer. If you go back to the early years of Metro, he single-handly kept the team in games making ridiculous save after ridiculous save. Unfortunately, the people harp on the fact that he:

    1) Is a big guy (You'd rather have Rimando in the Net?)
    2) He yells at refs and defense (Isn't that the intensity we criticize current Metros for lacking) and
    3) Gave up a soft near post-goal in the World Cup (I can't begin to fathom how that one play completely destroyed people's opinion of him no matter what else he did)

    Sure Ammann was a stand-up guy and who knew how to kiss up to the die-hards, Howard was an amazing raw talent who I'm proud to have seen early in his career, but there was only one Tony. He, not Tab or Donadoni, was the face of the franchise, and should still be. He was a local guy, a leader, and a top-tier talent. The fact that he's still disappointed about leaving 6 years later shows how much he actually wanted to be Metro, which as we all know is more than most guys on the current team. I know when they traded him away, that was the beginning of my declining interest in the team.
     
  25. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Re: Fat Tony: "It's the second worst move in MetroStars history"

    I thought Tony was a great keeper, but he did have his flaws. one of them was being contantly out of position which MADE him make spectacular saves that made him look like he just pulled one out of a hat. Then there were the constant bombs upfield everytime he got the ball giving possession right back to the opposition. I cant remember 1 time Meola either hand or foot passed to a defender to start the attack.

    Lets also not forget that Tony was costing us the max in a salary and there were other up and comers in this league including his young backup Howard who everyone rated highly at the time but agreed wasnt ready. If Howard would have made the team in 2004 when starting 16-18 year olds is the norm he wouldve started outright, but we had to go out and get an experience GK in Ammann to teach him the ropes.

    Meola was TOO vocal and thats his problem. A coach needs to be told if a player is not happy but a player cannot second guess the coach everytime he makes a move and thats what people like Meola did. Right or wrong its disruptive to the team, when a leader is defying his coach and the young ones have to figure out what side they should be on.
     

Share This Page