Menace!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by aetraxx7, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm looking at 4 Menace wins to finish off July. Friday will be an intense game with a lot on the line for both sides. I prefer to think of it as the Heartland Championship as opposed to who doesn't want to play Chicago. On the other hand, we've made it a lot farther in the USOC than Chicago, so that bodes well for us. No offense to the Thunder (yet), but we've faced tougher USOC opponents than Chicago. I think the past haunts us when we think about playing them. It's possible that we'd end up playing Boulder for the Central title on the 30th.

    The good news is that the other play off spot is between the Bucks and the Invaders. We already beat Indiana...

    So, yes, we must the all important task of winning our division and conference before tackling KC. Still, it's important to set goals... Speaking of which, some nice fiunishing and heavy leads would be nice to get some fresh legs out once in a while and let the starters rest. We have the talent, we need to use it, and then let it rest.
     
  2. PERFDBDAN

    PERFDBDAN New Member

    May 6, 2004
    A few thoughts . . .

    First, PDL teams have done very well against what are now called USL D1 and especially D2 teams. When you consider the games between historically top performing PDL teams and the other USL leagues, the PDL dominates. To call the Menace's victories upsets is misleading. The Menace should do well against midtable USL1 teams like Atlanta. Atlanta also obliged with a melt down. The Ocean City/Richmond game was also typical, though the score was interesting. The great disadvantge the Menace over came was the traveling.

    Second, the talent difference between the MLS and the USL D1 is far more extreme than the difference between PDL and USL D1. A good example can be found in former Menace player, Chris Brunt. He was the last man on the Wizards' roster for two seasons and was graced with a position because of the relationship between his college coach and Gansler - the same relationship aids Jewsbury who is a much better player. Brunt had great speed, but no vision and a very questionable touch. He is an above average player now in USL D1.

    This talent difference makes comparisons between what the Menace has accomplished and what lies ahead in Open Cup shaky at best.

    Third, many of your players have been seen and are known by the Wizards. Andy trained with the Wizards last two years. Jesse Baker and Cori Farabi played against the Wizards at least four times and maybe more last year. There are the annual preseason games you have before your roster is fully set. Neither team is an unknown to the other, unlike your previous games.

    Finally, the great difference between the MLS and either the USL D1 or the PDL is in speed of play. There and many players who have the talent to play at this level, but lack the ability to analyze and make decisions quickly enough. The same deficeit was on display when Real Madrid played the Galaxy. There was also a difference in talent (the Galaxy had no one, the MLS has no one, to equal Z), but the great difference is the speed of play.

    It is quite possible for the Menace to win. If they play at the top of their game and the Wizards are off, the Menace could win. It is not, however, likely.

    Also, while the rosters are not set, I would bet that Preki will start for the Wizards. I would expect your midfield, which has done well this year, to be tested early.
     
  3. dlatane

    dlatane New Member

    May 9, 2002
    Dominates? What 75% victories? Nah. The Kickers haven't been dominated by any PDL teams in my memory.

    "far more extreme"--tell that to all the MLS teams that got beat by A-league teams last year. Charleston was a bad A-league team and they took out the Metrostars. The Kickers took out the MLS champions. If the talent gap was "far more extreme" these things couldn't happen.

    Depends on what you mean by that. The Championship is generally more frenetic than the Premier League, and the A-League has historically been a bit more hectic than MLS which for a long time was defined by players such as Etch and Valderama who graced the midfield like statuary. Intelligent quick ball movement is a different matter of course.
     
  4. PERFDBDAN

    PERFDBDAN New Member

    May 6, 2004
    Spoken like a true fan, but one blinded by their loyalty. Get a copy of the USL media guide and review the history of play between the divisions.

    A League/USL D1 teams have beaten MLS sides. But, the MLS wins the majority of the games and has won 4X times the Open Cup Champions of the A League/USL Division 1 sides.
     
  5. Quista 14

    Quista 14 New Member

    May 31, 2003
    If you want to turn to records and all check out the follwoing link: http://www.usopencup.com/1995/index_E.html

    The MLS is 54-20 against A-League/USL 1st Division all-time.

    MLS is 9-3 all-time vs. PDL teams, so yes it does happen. It's been a few years, so hopefully this will be the year.
     
  6. dlatane

    dlatane New Member

    May 9, 2002
    I've got it out & absolutely nothing proves that there's a "far more extreme" gap between the MLS & the A-league than between the A-league & PDL.
     
  7. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the Gap between MLS and 1st Div is narrower than say FA and MLS or AAA and MLB. PDL by simple logic should have a larger gap between them and 1st Div. You're talking college players and what is essentially the top minor league. Many analysts put MLS on par with the USL 1st Div's equivelants in the UK, Germany, Spain, and Italy. I've seen some tight matches between upper and lower level clubs on both sides of the pond and I've got to say that if you look at the match and not the win/loss record, you'll find that there's a pretty tight slit between the top 2 levels, they're close. If we had promotion/relegation in the US, you'd really be able to comprehend it.

    There are 1st Div teams that would've knocked some sorry MLS clubs down. In fact, some MLS clubs may have found themselves in 2nd Div if we promoted like a European system. We don't, so it's moot.

    If we did, USOC would be an excellent predictor of movement. Stats aside, I've seen great and crappy games at every level in US soccer. I've seen crappy teams play MLS games with a slow style while some lower division clubs move like Euorpeans.

    The thing in US soccer is that any team can win at any time and style of play has a lot to do with it. MLS plays slow and the Menace tend to be faster, as is most of USL. It's easy to catch a team offgaurd when they aren't moving.
     
  8. PERFDBDAN

    PERFDBDAN New Member

    May 6, 2004
    Opinions are plentiful, and yours are shared by many, but in it is my opinion you are wrong in your assessment of the differences between the PDL and USL Div. 1.

    To suggest that because the USL D1 is a professional league and the PDL is the "highest amateur" league means one is better than the other is wrong. The best PDL teams recruit the best college players. Teams like Boulder, Orange County and your own Des Moiners have a better selection of talent than many A League teams becasue they do have the best college players. Not better than the best USL D1 teams, but better than mid table and below.

    You ignored the example of Chris Brunt, consider the evidence of the recent MLS draft. Where did most players drafted to a higher level (MLS) last play, PDL or USL D1? The answer is in the PDL. In interleague competition the better PDL teams play even with or better than all but the top table USL D1 teams. Again, you need look no further than your experience this year in Open Cup, and also against the Thunder.

    Finally, statements that begin "Many analysts" are worthless. Most analysts know little of the leagues. Far too many look at the press releases and media guide and take "fourth division" to mean it is somehow inferior to the higher divisions. That is entirely bogus. The PDL even its mid table teams have for years beaten the former D2 and now USL division2 league teams. Without identify who the analysts are you could be speaking of my eleven year old daughter, who has watched a number of games played in both leagues and would disagree with you.
     
  9. Wildcard

    Wildcard New Member

    Jul 4, 2004
    US
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically, what you will see between KC and the Menace is current MLS players playing against some future MLS players. This is exciting for this sport.
     
  10. menacemaniac

    menacemaniac New Member

    Mar 2, 2005
    Des Moines Area
    I like that you bring up Chris Brunt. I've played with/against Brunt for many years and I have to make one statement about him. No matter where he's gone, who he's played for, he's always been one of the most competitive SOB's I've ever known, if not the most. If half the players in the MLS had as much competitive drive as Brunt, they'd be playing overseas for an EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, or La Liga team. He's one of the few players I can say I HATE playing because if you get in his way, he'll break you in half. I can see Brunt working on his weaknesses and finding his way back onto an MLS roster, but whether or not he plays is a completely different story. You can get away with playing with pure heart for only so long before the technical and tactical parts of the game catch up to you and put you in your place, but he has all the athletic and psychological tools to make it. We'll see what happens with him, I personally would be very proud to see him make it back to the show. Let me hear your thoughts.
     
  11. PERFDBDAN

    PERFDBDAN New Member

    May 6, 2004
    MM,

    Your observations tally with mine.

    I feel Chris is a player the system of player development let down. He was chosen for his speed and physical dominance. At even the college level he did not need to perfect or learn fundamentals. As a result he was limited to serving the role of a destroyer and had difficulty contributing to the offense at the MLS level. His lack of solid technique and speed of play (not overall speed for he is FAST) hurt him.

    Hopefully he is at a level where he can develop and is developing.
     
  12. orbie

    orbie New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Austin
    I can't say I agree that PDL & USL 1 are faster paced than MLS. When I read interviews with players in thier MLS rookie year they all comment that the movement and speed of the game are the biggest diffrence.
     
  13. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Casey just hit everyone's thoughts and feelings about the team, players, and the organization on the head. What a superb guy. Thank God he's staying. I hope we get a first division team before we lose him.
     
  14. menacemaniac

    menacemaniac New Member

    Mar 2, 2005
    Des Moines Area
    Just found a funny article for everybody to check out of if they wish. According to matchnight.com the Menace haven't played a game since Nov. 30th of lord knows what year. Also, according to them both teams will be 'coming into the match well rested and perhaps a bit rusty.' That's funny, we didn't have two games this weekend or anything...Funniest part about the article, we haven't played a league game in 732,560 days and our record is even at 0-0. UNBELIEVABLE! Whoever did this research must have had an open can of paint thinner near their desk, if you catch my drift...check it out.
    http://www.matchnight.com/matchnight.cfm?Page=PREVIEW&MatchID=8603
     
  15. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yar, so all of our players should be nice and rested if a bit rusty. I don't want to hear anyone complaining about being tired!!!! Nice coverage.

    Wednesday is so huge I can hardly contain myself.
     
  16. firesting81

    firesting81 Member

    Jan 16, 2001
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Got an extra bus seat and/or ticket. PM me if you're interested. I'll be checking for the next two hours.
     
  17. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    Hmm.
     
  18. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was sarcasm. Went in after a busy and emotional weekend and The Wizards had a nice little break for a week and a half. Great game tonight though.
     
  19. orbie

    orbie New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Austin
    where is that kid who wanted to put Menace in MLS? Welcome to the big leagues, ouch!

    Still an great run for the Menace. When are you guys going to go USL D2 ?
     
  20. Quista 14

    Quista 14 New Member

    May 31, 2003
    Ah, remember we featured a team of amateurs?? That might explain the score. Nothing to do with us wanting to move up the rungs of the US Soccer chain. The Menace will never go USL D2 because we have nobody to play in this area and travel would be way to expensive. It will probably be a while before we move up.
     
  21. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Member

    Oct 7, 2001
    Also have to realize, if we move up we will also be getting even better players.
     
  22. MenaceFanatic

    MenaceFanatic New Member

    Oct 5, 2004
    I am not so sure abou that, Snake. Remember, most all our players are great D1 players......who couldn't play if we went D2 or USL1. I am not sure that isn't a thought in Kyle's head now though.
     
  23. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Member

    Oct 7, 2001
    I'm not saying our guys can't but that we can also attract other talent that is currently too good to be playing in the PDL there would be more competition for spots that's for certain.
     
  24. firesting81

    firesting81 Member

    Jan 16, 2001
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    What about the possibility of making the Menace a USL First Division squad and creating another PDL team in Iowa? Say...in Cedar Rapids or Iowa City? That way, the current college guys could transfer to the new team and the best guys that graduate but don't make an MLS squad could go to the Menace.

    This area is a great untapped market. Besides, they'd have at least one dedicated staff member who'd be willing to work for peanuts each summer.
     

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