But they did have a very poor tournament based on their usual standards and a lineup there that many said should’ve relied more on younger talent. Anyways my take is sometimes bad results happen. And sometimes you beat Spain 2-0 during their dynastic reign.
The point is that because soccer is game that is open to chance (low scoring, etc), it's stupid to lower one's odds of winning by doing quixotic stuff like trying to prove that MLS is as good as the major leagues as Arena tried.
You do know Arena has criticized MLS multiple times and even been fined and repudiated by Garber publicly. Also, the idea that he'd make decisions to please "his superiors" is laughable. That could be more true of Berhalter (though I don't think it is) I just want to point out how ignorant the personification of Bruce Arena as MLS / USSF "company man" is to make this narrative work. Why does this keep getting brought up as a negative? You want to part of a business or team that doesn't do this? Why is that obvious to you? Because I can actually see very little evidence that MLS owners give a shit about having players called up, which is the basis for the whole allegation of a conflict. If anything, they increasingly dislike it. Berhalter was whining publicly last year about MLS clubs not releasing the players he called up. Boy, it's weird that the MLS owners would use their influence to make him call their players, then not release them. In fact, you would think the same owners would stop choosing to play through dates if having their players on the NT was as important to them as you claim. I'm guessing it's actually not, especially these days. Really, do you think Atlanta United fans are deciding whether or not to show up to matches based on who is getting called up to play in qualifiers? The USMNT is a sports team that has trouble attracting fans to games despite having the most talented American ever on its roster. Even at its zenith, it was a sports team that failed to outdraw its rivals for home matches in major US cities. On top of that, USSF in general now has a huge PR issue. How does having a player on that team do anything for an MLS owner?
I disagree that was his goal. Previous hex lineups of Arena's (including getting smoked at home by Costa Rica) boasted some of the very same Euro-based names he was allegedly biased against during the final two games. Why play them at all if he had such an insidious plan all along? Doesn't add up to me. More likely explanation is he went with what he thought would get the job done when it came to the end of things. He got it right against Panama, and things went badly against T&T. Simple as that. Hindsight tells, of course, poor decisions were made the final night, but at the same time I think some too fans are too quick to forget about the Panama game going perfectly.
Fair enough - as i said, they hired Arena knowing his stated intent of building around MLS and de-emphasizing dual-Americans so they got what they wanted. Berhalter is clearly a company man IMO.
I specifically said that it wasn't a problem. The point is that in the negotiations between MLS/SUM and the USSF, there's no questions that the table is tilted towards MLS instead of the PR point that it was altruism on MLS' behalf - they have no altruism other than making money. The negotiations were like robbing candy from a baby - MLS clearly benefited.
His lineups and rosters were 2/3 MLS which was unheard of before him (and now Berhalter). You sound like most racist's favorite line (not saying you're racist): some of my friends are [minorities] so I can't be prejudiced......the fact that he included some European based names doesn't mean he wasn't biased. Did you not read his remarks that were echoed by Wambach and Donovan? He clearly put them into action - of that there can be no doubt.
Garber doesn't want MLS on the USMNT? do you not recall when he went ballistic when Klinsmann stated that playing in MLS wouldn't be as good as playing in the Big 4 leagues? He effectively said that the two were intertwined and because a couple of clubs don't want to release players two years before the cycle starts is poor proof that they don't care. Garber and MLS would go apeshit if the USMNT fielded a World Cup team that didn't have MLS players - we are fast approaching that point and I'm interested to see what happens. Maybe we will build around Michael Bradley again....
At least you admit Arena started Euro-based players during his second run as coach. More than I've seen from some NT fans who have a negative obsession with MLS (not saying you always run with that crowd). Wambach and Donovan have nothing to do with the U.S. qualifying run for Russia. I've seen that "we have MLS players who play that position" quote from Arena, which just leaves me confused since MLS has players who play every position. Arena was free to pick a 100% MLS squad if he wanted to.
A few months ago The Athletic did a piece about new MLS roster rules and how and why they became rules. MLS' plan in the beginning of the decade was to be the place where most NT players played. They were willing to bring established players back (Bradley,Dempsey,Altidore) at a premium, keep newer stars in the league (Besler) and sign projected stars (Arriola). This also explains Garber's temper tantrum of how everyone must fall in line with their vision while Klinsmann was encouraging players to go overseas. This is not some wacky conspiracy theory. This was a business plan that ultimately failed on a few fronts. Per haps it was the product they were selling. Many see MLS as the New Coke of sports.
Care to expand on this? The first two points were the ones that Wambach and Donovan backed. Here’s Arena’s direct comments and actions. Prior to being coach, Bruce Arena states the following on having Jermaine Jones and Terence Boyd on a roster: “Players on the national team should be–and this is my own feeling–they should be Americans. If they’re all born in other countries, I don’t think we can say we are making progress.” Prior to being coach, Arena also states: “I think the majority of the national team should come out of Major League Soccer. I'm a big believer in the American player and producing them out of our system. I think that ultimately is what will develop the sport in our country, not on the field but with the consumer. When they can recognize our players and who they are and where they came from, they'll be more supportive of the sport, and that's a big plus in terms of marketing. When we do it with randomly selecting people from all over that really have no connection, I don't think it hits home with people we want supporting our sport and our national team" Despite the awfulness of the first comment and the clear bias of the second, the USSF hires Arena anyway After his hiring, Arena puts actions to words, relying heavily on an MLS squad that failed to qualify while also saying about a Big 4 player not even making the squad,"there are MLS players who play that position." It's not just that one last quote.
Some distaste in those comments, especially the first one. At best I think that was Arena's non-politic, old man way of saying we need to be able to produce better players domestically, but that "they should be American" phrasing is definitely not something you should be thinking or saying. In fairness I do remember Arena addressing that quote after being hired and insisting that all players, including dual-internationals, would be considered for his team. And he did pick some dual-internationals.
That's false. First and foremost, Arena was approached because the NT was consistently failing to have good performances or results. I'm pretty sure no one would give a shit about the "dual-Americans" (whatever that is) or anything else if the team was actually performing the way they should've and on its way to the World Cup. So as a starting point, let's debunk the idea that a new coach was brought in to do anything other than to fix a team that had experienced many historically bad results. Besides that, the idea that Arena carried out some purge of dual nationals once he got the job is also inaccurate.
Garber not wanting Klinsmann to talk shit about his company is not proof that he thinks every USMNT player should come from MLS (and yes, what the owners are actually doing is better evidence of their feelings than statements made to the press). Another illogical argument. For one, either you have a short memory or simply don't know that in 2010, the USMNT took the fewest MLS players ever to World Cup. Aside from Donovan, only like Buddle and Findley (who wasn't even supposed to be there) were on the roster. Seems like "Garber and MLS" weathered that fine. The league also weathered not having a US team in the World Cup (and by extension, no American MLS players) at all -- so again, this idea that their, what, relevance? is so dependent on this is probably bullshit.
Signing / marketing NT stars and future stars (which any league does) is a strategy the league pursued. Tell me how that translates to the idea of coercing the NT manager to select MLS players over better options?
total BS. Look at the number of MLS players on the roster under arena - much higher than previous and he clearly was trying to show that MLS was better than people thought. Nice idea - didn’t work.
there is no way you can actually think that he was simply saying that the US should be producing better players. That’s trump-ian logic at it’s finest. Wamvach was even more specific specific in calling out Jones as un-American. I cannot stand her, arena or landon for that truly un-American perspective.
Like I said, that part of his quote was distasteful, but I remember Arena trying to walk back the distasteful element, and his player selection backed that up since he did in fact pick dual internationals born outside the U.S. I didn't like how he said "they should be Americans", but I can't ignore all his actions because I didn't like one thing he said. And Wambach and Donovan still have nothing to do with the U.S. men's NT player selection.
He said it and the. The followed his words with action: he chose more MLS players than any modern coach and paid the price. That is, unless you believe that, “hey if there’s one player from Europe there’s no bias” (ie, “some of my best friends are Jewish”). i guess those people don’t believe that redlining existed either and that Harvard didn’t discriminate against Asian Americans....
I don't see it as "paid the price." I think Arena walked into a tough job, in a hole points-wise and a broken locker room to deal with. He did good to get us to the point of still being alive in the final hex game, imo. After the first two hex games and multiple poor results in the few years leading up to 2017, I suspected qualifying was going to be a rough ride at best. The very end result was failure, but I don't think there's a guarantee we even get that far if an alternate roster and lineup was used.
Stop. You keep evading the fact that he took a marked turn towards MLS after previously stating that he would be MLS biased. It’s simply not an excuse to say “well, he did call a couple of dual Americans” as you’ve repeated done here. the numbers speak for themselves (MLS representation) as does the basic logic that MLS is a minor league below the best leagues/teams in the world.
1. MLS wants its players on the USMNT. 2. Bruce Arena agrees with this idea. 3. Bruce Arena becomes USMNT manager. Probably not much coercing needed.
Two of the 4 toughest Hex matchups had been played by the time Arena took over. He had 8 matches. He had friendlies. And had a Gold Cup. He had plenty of opportunity to figure stuff out. Deciding to, on three days rest, use the exact same lineup to lose to the T&T C-team was a colossal failure that likely would have been avoided by most coaches.