Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Slash/ED, Sep 7, 2002.
For so many reasons, tonight just brings them to a head.
Look pal, calm down - you could be Scottish!
Well, that's another story, but you don't know the half of it as far as Mick is concerned, I wonder who will go first, Vogts or McCarthy?
ill put money on it!
At least McCarthy has a track record with Ireland, which is more than anyone can say for Vogts.
And even if the FAI do sack him, at least there is hope for Irish football.
Perhaps this Euro 2008 bid is a good idea, since neither of us looks like qualifying for 2004 right now!
Aside from 2002 his track record is disaster after disaster I'm afraid, Vogts wont go, no matter what, as he is a "new manager, building, blah" and all that, but the results must improve dramatically.
I thought you were very unlucky not to qualify for 2000, 1998 campaign you were rebuilding post-Charlton. I would certainly accept McCarthy's peformance if this is what is to happen to Scotland, ie build the team now, narrowly miss out on/maybe qualify for 2006 and have a good team at 2008 tournament.
But maybe he has to introduce one or two new players now just to keep things fresh and to develop a new team. Perhaps he is falling into the same trap as Craig Brown, ie being too loyal to some players
How can you call for his sacking over one match ?
McCarthy has done a good job of putting the lads together over the years....this loss will put the fire back into the squad.
Thats exactly right on the loyalty thing, and we weren't unlucky in Euro 2000, Mick played ten men behind the ball against Macedonia and we only managed a draw, he cost us that.
I've been calling for his sacking for over two years now.
Sorry but that just proves you have something against him.....in those two years he's showed what he can do.
Yeah, like that Macedonia game, top class. I've nothing against him personally, top bloke, and served our country as good as any as a player, but as a manager he is tactically inept. Proved by the fact that he STILL views Duff and Keane as a decent strike partnership.
.... also like to add that there is going to be a nice scuffle or two when the Russians come back to Dublin....my cousins who went over there were involved with the hotel incident and they are pretty pissed about the whole deal. The police didn't do too much to help the Irish fans out and they backed away untill the Irish were obviously hurt...sad stuff to hear.
I sure hope that the Russian fans stay home for the next match because the paypack will be pretty heavy.
I hope that you are talking out of your arse... anyone who spouts this sort of nonsense is not a football supporter and should never be allowed into a football ground again! You are a disgrace to your country.
1.... if you were in Moscow , your response wouldbe different.
2... I do not condone houliganism but it's practically a for gone conclusion that someone's feathers will be ruffled.
3... I represent Ireland on a big stage and would never do anything to tarnish the colours and the people of Eire....ever.
McCarthy's propensity for bringing on defenders when a goal is needed is ridiculous. Taking off a winger (even Kilbane is better than another defender) and bringing on a centre back, what was he thinking??? I've been watching us ending up with four full-backs on the field at the end of games for too long, now he's starting with centre backs. Surely there's someone on the bench who can say "Do you not think we need another striker, Boss?" when he tells Babb to get ready?????
Perhaps he wanted to push Harte up, as he considered Harte a better attacking option that Kilbane, and wanted a left-footed defender (Babb) to cover? That's the only reason I can think of for the switch.
The answer was sitting on the bench and his name was Colin Healy. I said it at half time and I was proved right, also, not even putting the best defender we have, John O'Shea, on the bench!?!?!?! After THAT defencive display, that decision is even more highlighted. At least Morrison has, HOPEFULLY (But it's never a certain thing with Mick) that he is worth a start up front as he is a goal scorer, Duff isn't, and Duff has to play on the wing.
My few cents-worth:
By international standards, we have a frail, flat, slow defence. Hold the back pages because we didn’t know that already…
Tactically, we got two things badly wrong. Firstly, we clearly had no set plan for picking up their midfield runners when Russia knocked it over the top. When they tried to play it through us, we coped adequately. When they went direct, we looked ridiculously vulnerable. On a similar big pitch in Tehran, we had much the same problem, but got away with it on the night, thanks mostly to Shay Given.
Secondly, why did we feel we needed to push forward so much, so early on? This is not being wise in hindsight. Surely, caution for the first hour at least and then take a look in the last 20-30 minutes would have made more sense. We may be a team on the up while Russia are struggling a bit, but few sides, if any, can risk being that positive so early on in Moscow, especially when you know little about the opposition. For example, early in the game, McAteer was stranded in their area, while they countered unopposed down his wing. It was a move we were a little fortunate to survive. Not for long though, as it turned out...
We need to have a more balanced subs bench. The injury to Duff meant we had no creativity in midfield to throw on. This is the role I was suggesting that McPhail could fulfil as neither Healy nor Carsley are game-altering midfield players....
Clinton Morrison needs at least one full Premiership season in his legs before he will be a candidate to start for Ireland. Against an ordinary defence, he failed to impose himself at all. While he may have the potential, he’s just too raw still. At least he took his chance though, which is the bottom line for an international striker.
Its at best a bittersweet comment, but at least there can be no doubt now as to Roy Keane’s influence on Ireland’s recent successes. Some of the commentary since the World Cup was ridiculously “Roy Who?”… For better or for worse, no one can be that smart-arsed about it again.
To find the silver lining, at least the post-WC honeymoon is over and Ireland now has everything to prove all over again. It will certainly be more of a sleeves-rolled-up approach in the next game.
On a similar note, this bad performance has come both in our hardest game on paper of the group and right at the start of the campaign. If you are going to have your first really sub-standard game in two years, this was probably a good one to choose. Of course, the mountain to get to Portugal just got a little steeper as a result…
One last optimistic thought… England lost at home to Germany and then drew with the Finns at the start of qualifying for the last WC. They then drew at home in their last game to an also-ran side. Despite all this, they topped their group and qualified automatically. Meanwhile, Ireland went unbeaten in a far tougher group and won every home game save for a draw with the eventual group winners. Yet we ended up needing to qualify via the play-offs! So, as there is still plenty of football to be played, there is no need for panic just yet!
what have we learned, my few pence worth........
morrison is not an international striker. i know he scored but he was rubbish
duff is not a striker, he's a winger. we need someone who can consistently deliver a good cross
holland is, was and will continue to be an anonymous midfield player
kilbane is all effort but no ability
harte was surprisingly, not the worst player on the pitch but is still a weak link
nobody, with the possible exception of keane, had a good game.
doherty was good when he came on, was a real threat and took his goal well. he deserves a chance to be keane's partner until sadlier is ready. i know he's technically a full back but we have no real options in that position. i made this point on another thread that ireland are at their most dangerous when keane is playing along side a big striker.
healy can replace holland in the midfield and add some much needed presence and support play to kinsella
o'shea MUST be given a chance at centre back
i really hope young tierney at man united is as good a left back as they say
mccarthy's record speakes for itself so he won't be sacked (unless we fail to qualify, then he'll resign). we see he is still tactically naive and prone to some stupid substitutions (what the hell was babb doing on???). is there some kind of residential course he can go on?? do the italians or french have a coaching school?
it's ok to stick by your players if they have a few bad games but seriously it's about time he wields the axe on some players - we all know who they are.
on the positive side.............
1. it's only the first game on a long qualifying road and we will get better.
2. we know we're vulnerable against a quick midfield and balls being lobbed over the full backs
3. the russians weren't very good and can drop points against the swiss and georgians
4. a new-up is 1 less game away
5. we're not scotland (sorry guys!!)
Mick proved once again that he does'nt really know what to do when the chips are down - Phil B ffs!..., Kilbane is such a poor footballer he's embarassing to watch - Duff should be on the left, Keane + Doherty/Sadlier up front - ... i also think Healy should have replaced Holland who was v.poor...
as previous mails have stated we are lucky that it's our first game and we have time to recover...
We need to get rid of McCarty! Simple as that....Then we won't have to look at the spectacle of Kevin Kilbane trying to put in another one of his 'crosses' which go about 10 yards behind the goal and then see a close-up of his mug with an expression of complete and utter uncomprehension of how useless he is. How did this guy ever get to be a professional footballer....I'm sure he's a nice guy and all...but the manager who included him in the team has to ask himself some hard questions..
Bring on Ronnie O'Brien, and all your problems are solved! )
Too harsh for one match, no Keane and he takes you to the brink of the quarterfinals, going out on penalties in the round of 16 is nothing to be ashamed of, most predicted you not to even advance out of group play. And to do all that without your best player? Give the manager some credit.
It's MacCarty's fault we did'nt have our best player at the wc!!
I agree Mick is no world beater, but will someone please tell me who we get in to replace him
Bandying about Martin O'Neill/Guus Hiddinck etc is just lunacy as they would never agree to take over.
Dave O'Leary? Who would he start blaming when things went wrong....the IRFU? bad omens from the Newgrange passage grave? the Beef Tribunal?
The balancing act of getting someone who would want to join and who Roy Keane would respect is one that fails to yield a solution in my mind.......any suggestions? If not, I suggest we let Mick see this campaign through before sharpening the knives.