http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=7&u=/ap/20030519/ap_on_el_ge/democrats_bush ...you dont say....
Democrats really suck lately. It's like they don't even know how politics works anymore. They just want to cry about how the other person is unfair or mean. The Dems lost this debate when most sold out their principles and authorized military force against Iraq.
Howard Dean's had a lot of experience with terrorism as the Gov. of Vermont. How will Dean's policy of cutting military spending & intelligence assist the war on terror? Dems shouldn't be so quick to slam Bush's policies when they were happily riding the domestic spoils of a good economy during the late 90s and basically ignoring the terrorist threats from Al Qaeda. Let's face it. Regardless of party affiliation, we were all caught with our pants down on 9/11. We didn't take the terrorist threat seriously like Israel has for many yrs. We are catching up but slowly. I don't think Al Gore would have done anything vastly different from what Bush has done.
It's absolutely wrong to consider anyone anti-war as unpatriotic, unless they explicitly say that they are. The two are not automatically connected.
That's true. But standing on the sidelines throwing rocks at a Prez. who has been the 1st to take on global terrorism head on is also absolutely wrong. Not unpatriotic, but unwise. Dems are already perceived as soft on defense and as habitual complainers. Howard Dean isn't helping their image.
I don't care about image. Being anti-war does not, in anyway shape or form, make you unpatriotic. And to accuse people of it is just plain wrong. End of discussion.
Well you obviously feel strongly about this since 1) You posted it twice and 2) you feel that YOUR opinion, once expressed, suffices to end all possible disagreement. But I'm interested here: could you please quote me, cite for me or link for me an example of someone connected with the administration EVER calling somebody "unpatriotic" for expressing an opinion? Ever? Just once? Now, if individuals say it, well, that's what they call "free speech". Not that I've heard anybody at all call anybody else "unpatriotic" over this whole thing ever, but I'm willing to concedxe that it's possible. But I'm really sick of listening to all this "don't call me unpatriotic" crap from people who have never been called unpatriotic. So please. Help me here. Show me where this happened. If you can't, then I guess we'll just have to conclude that this is just in a long, sorry line of liberal myths and straw men. As for Terry McAuliffe, he's the CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. HELLO????? He's PAID to be WILDLY PARTISAN. Are you following this here??? Should I gop slower??? Use your finger and sound oput the words. HE IS A PROFESSIONALLY PARTISAN PERSON. The thread starter evidently feels that, regardless of the fact that he is Bill Clinton's best pal and a radical liberal Democrat Bush hater par excellance that his opinons in this regard are worthy of note. Here's a clue, dimwit: it would be the newsflash of the century if he DIDN'T say things like this. It's his job. Class dismissed.
The overwhelming view of the "Iraqi Liberation" backers is that most of anti-war protestors around the country are either anti-US or pro-Saddam. It goes hand in hand with the "with or against us" idea.
Okay I'll play Bill....kicking your ass just get's easier and easier. John Ashcroft: In testifying before Congress John Ashcroft (no military background) accused Tom Daschle (an Air Force vet) and anyone else who dared question Administration tactics in the War on Terrorism or Iraq as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. His exact words were: "Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve ... They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil." Ari Fleischer: Then of course there is Ari's ominous warning to all Americans against speaking out: "need to watch what they say, watch what they do." Dennis Hastert: House Speaker Dennis Hastert on Tom Daschle critical statement on the Bush administration's failed diplomacy: The remarks "may not give comfort to our adversaries, but they come mighty close." Dick Cheney: At a fundraising dinner in New York City, Cheney made an extraordinary warning to “my Democratic friends in Congress.” Cheney said, “They need to be very cautious not to seek political advantage by making incendiary suggestions...” He called such criticism “thoroughly irresponsible ... in time of war.”
Dude, everyone is anti-war. Only full blown psycopaths relish the thought of war. Those, however, who are anti-war at all cost are simply idiots. This, my friend, is a no brainer. Maybe in your Lillybread little life you can escape confrontation but, down here on Planet Earth, it is sometimes necessary to defend yourself.
Gee, my reading skills must be eroding badly. I'm having some trouble finding the word "unpatriotic" here. Would you mind highlighting it for me? Thanks.
Re: Re: McAuliffe: Bush Exploiting Patriotism you're right unpatriotic is really the wrong word, in these statements they are implying treason
Bill even for you that is a pathetic come back...about as good as your hero Clinton saying "It depends what your definition of is, is". They accused anyone of criticizing the president or the war as giving "aid and comfort to the enemy". If that is not calling someone unpatriotic and leveling the charge of treason then I do not know what is.
...and so the cycle continues. Necessary to defend yourself against a country that hadn't attacked you? wasn't attacking you? couldn't have attacked you? Those WMDs are pretty thin on the ground as far as I can tell. But yes, you 'defend' away.
WHO said that? SInce you put it in "quotes" you apparently have a quote. So WHO used the term "aid and comfort to our enemies" Jesus, you guys just make this crap up, and don't even see what's wrong with it. There is ONE quote, from someone who is NOT a member of the adminitration that says: The remarks "may not give comfort to our adversaries, but they come mighty close." That is NOT accusing ANYONE of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" it is NOT "leveling the charge of treason". It just isn't. In the quotes you cited, nobody accused ANYBODY of ANYTHING. Cheney used the word "irresponsible" Fleischer asid that people "need to be careful" what they say lest they cause unintended consequences to our soldiers. Ashcroft said that Daschles (completely irresponsible and politically motivated) remarks could damage our cause. All of these things are PATENTLY TRUE. And in no case did anybody accuse anybody of "treason". Good God, people, can you not READ?? So now I guess you guys AREN'T claiming people were called "unpatriotic" but rather that some people IMPLIED it. Not the same thing, bunky, even if it were true. What do you THINK they should say to remarks like Daschles' blatent political hack job? I mean there's a pretty narrow range of options: 1) "gee, Tom, you're right, we're invading Iraq to steal their resources and colonize their country. (And probably help people loot their museums) How naughty of us." 2) Gee Tom, saying stuff like that encourages those who are trying to kill our kids to keep fighting because they get the impression you'll do their work for them. It's why partisanship used to end at the water's edge. Back before Clinton injected the country, and idiots like you, with this good guy/satanic guy view of politics. But then, people who take quotes fromTerry Freaking McAuliffe, the most blatently biased man in America, at face value can't be expected to be able to deal with the language. It says what you WANT it to say, and the truth be damned. Liberal through and through.
John Ashcroft "Your tactics only aid terrorists..." The pro-war people on this board are really reaching here. If you can't see the implied pressure to not speak your mind in the American government right now, then you're beyond help. "Watch what you say, watch what you do". "You're either with us, or you're against us" No country should ever, EVER demand complete blind faith from anyone, for anything. Ever. To put pressure on an elected leader to not debate about how a country is being run (which he was elected to help do) is completely undemocratic.
Jeez Louise - these are politicians and general spin-meisters we're dealing with - did you really expect not have to use your 'implication radar' on them? Sometimes, it really is the 'right' that needs to grow-up and stop slinging the same accusations around. 'If they didn't exactly say it they didn't mean it'
Hector, I am sure you are incapable of seeing the irony in what you just wrote but I will try. 1)It's pretty damn funny really...when Clinton parsed words and played that game the Reeps screamed bloody murder...when one of their own do it (and saying Denny Hastert is not attached to the Admin. is just plain dumb) suddenly no implications are necessary, because NOTHING is implied in a political statement, EVER. 2) Now Hector...let's first look at your interpetation of Daschle's statement. I am using your words here my friend. You said that Daschle's statement was "completely irresponsible and politically motivated " AND Gee Tom, saying stuff like that encourages those who are trying to kill our kids to keep fighting because they get the impression you'll do their work for them. Let's look at what he actually said: "I'm saddened, saddened that this president failed so miserably at diplomacy that we're now forced to war... I am saddened that we have to give up one life because this president couldn't create the kind of diplomatic effort that was so critical for our country." Hmmm...sounds like a sound critique of our foreign policy leading up to the Iraq War. AND WE WERE NOT EVEN AT WAR YET..THIS WAS RIGHT BEFORE BUSH'S 48 HOUR DEADLINE. So...I guess it is YOU Hector who is taking a quote from a national leader about our diplomatic efforts and extrapolating it as "encouraging those who are trying to kill our kids". So who is implying what now Hector? As a note of history I would like to add this: Sixty years ago, when there was a declared war and sacrifice was being asked of Americas, Senate GOP Leader Robert Taft declared: "Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government." The great Ohio conservative continued to assail President Roosevelt's domestic policies through much of World War II and was one of the few politicians with the courage to speak out against the internment of Japanese-Americans. (Surely John Ashcroft would have accused him of giving aid and comfort to the enemy.) 3) It's why partisanship used to end at the water's edge. Back before Clinton injected the country, and idiots like you, with this good guy/satanic guy view of politics. Dude you must be smoking crack if you think that Clinton was the only one who injected a "good guy/satanic guy view" into American politics. Ever heard of a lovely little man named Lee Atwater?