Mathis and Howard Red Card Movies Here

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by Bigfoot, Sep 15, 2002.

  1. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot New Member

  2. deedougie

    deedougie Member

    Jul 5, 2000
    OAK,CA
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    says you need a password
     
  3. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot New Member

    melissa

    It's supposed to be removed but try that all lower case anyway.
     
  4. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm admittedly not a Metros fan, but those look like two pretty justifiable red cards to me.

    Howard was unlucky, but Mathis was dumb.

    If it makes y'all feel better, Steve Ralston won't play next week because of caution points.
     
  5. BallStateMiddie

    BallStateMiddie New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Nashvegas
    Excellent job on the videos. Thanks. Great resolution. MLSnet could take notes on that. How'd you do it, just out of curiousity?
     
  6. Popero

    Popero Member

    Jul 5, 2002
    CT
    Wow. Just wow. I didn't see the game, but the way some of you were arguing those led me to believe that they were borderline.

    Mathis purposely stepped on his back, then realized how stupid it was and tried to make sure he was ok. Too late. That was as clear as it gets.

    Howard's wasn't malicious, to be sure, but as a last defender, he can't foul to prevent an obvious scoring chance. Even your announcer agreed.
     
  7. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I would say Mathis is an idiot from that angle, except for one thing.

    The angle that his leg came down was not straight. In that situation, if he wanted to hurt Alegria, he woudl have stomped straight down as hard as he could. Instead it was more of a running motion at first. I don't know, Alegria was roling around like a woman. Just for that, I wouldn't have given a card.
     
  8. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    That's nitpicking.

    I just feel bad. OZ is a moron. His stupidity has worn off on the team. I just don't know anymore.
     
  9. JRedknapp11

    JRedknapp11 Red Card

    Dec 5, 2001
    tsacademy.net
    Bigfoot....many thanks for the videos.

    1) Kevin Scott made the correct call on the Mathis incident. It clearly showed Clint taking advantage of the player being down and Clint then applying his foot to the back of the United player. Mathis shouldn't of had a problem with his footing and the notion of him slipping backward unfortuntly isn't the case here. Clint had his right foot on solid ground and only when the Utd. player rolled onto that foot was when Clint gave him a bit of "love tap" if you will to the back. You can tell from Clint's immediate reaction of looking at the ref with a grin that this was no accident or matter of misplacing his foot. Even if it were to of been a misjudgement in foot placement, Clint's guilty grin compounded with the Utd player rolling on the ground led to his dismissal. I have to go with the ref on this one. It's a true 50/50 call and thanks to Clint's reaction and the home crowd going nuts, the push go's to Kevin Scott issuing a red. Also to be noted was that the Utd. player was on his side at the time of contact, which would of cleared some room for Clint to place his left foot alongside the Utd player.



    2) The foul by Howard is two fold. Scott was at a distance when this play happened so his vision was impaired on this one. The actual foul happened rather fast , so the judgment call was a bit tough to make.

    After watching the foul in slow motion it's pretty clear cut that there was no actual contact between Tim and Roy. Lassiter sold the foul to Scott and let's face it, that's Roy's job in that type of scenerio. However it's Scott's job to relies that Roy was puting on a show and then act accordingly. The red card must of been given because Scott saw Tim as the last man back , however to properly make that call the ball should of been spotted for an automatic pk. The last man standing rule clearly states that a rec card should be issued and a pk be to given. Scott did not give the pk , so Scott clearly dropped the ball on that. If Scott is issuing a red card for the foul and not the last man rule, then again he clearly misjudged the play, since there was no contact made. Howard was a mear inches and a few split seconds off from making contact , so the " foul " was clearly that of mistimed judgement, which in the most extreme cases warrant a yellow.

    So either way you look at it, Scott made the wrong call on the Howard foul. Roy sold it rather well as he kept his feet moving while he fell, but there was clearly no contact made. A yellow should of been the card pulled....it didn't deserve a card but if he is going to issue one, the yellow would of been the extreme call....going with the red was just horrible officiating.
     
  10. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Mass
    JRedknapp11, I've never seen a pk given to any type of foul outside of the box. I would say that a free kick from the point of the foul would be sufficient. Howard definitely got there after the ball was gone. I didn't check the slow motion to see if there was any contact, but at real speed it definitely looked like a red card.

    Clint, on the other hand, really blew it. What's with him? I think that he must be a little frustrated at the way his year's turned out after expectations of a big Euro transfer, but that play was inexcusable. Saying that he didn't deserve a card because he wasn't trying to injure (or that he didn't kick him that hard) is like saying that Hernandez could have kicked Nowak in the face harder in that open cup game. There's no way that you can tolerate that type of play in this league.
     
  11. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Mathis should have kicked him in the face at full force.
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost New Member

    Aug 3, 1999
    joisy
    Unfortunately Both cards are deserved. Howard got there too late and clipped Lassiter just enough to unbalance him. I don't think there was much if any embellishment. Mathis is just a bum. I think most of the the dis-unity of the team started with his return. hat was very cheap and unbecomming of a "top" professional.

    I'm disgusted
     
  13. Soccerski

    Soccerski Member

    Dec 2, 2000
    Georgetown, CT
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking at these replays again, I have questions / comments:

    1. Was Howard really the last defender? At the time of Howard's challenge, it looked like a Metro defender had caught up with the play on Lassiter's right.

    2. Wasn't Allegra's tackle from behind? In that case doesn't he deserve a booking also?

    3. From one angle it looks like Mathis was planting his left foot rather than stomping, from the other it looks like a mild stomp. The DC player definitely made a meal of it.
     
  14. You seem to be the only one getting the point. This is what makes Stott so horrible. Allegria isn't even called for the foul let alone given the red that it deserved. Mathis should get yellow for retaliating. Stott's worst piece of this is missing the first and most obvious foul by Allegria.
     
  15. AndrewGK

    AndrewGK New Member

    Apr 12, 1999
    Dublin, Ohio, USA
    From an unbiased fan (and thanks to the person who has this stuff on QuickTime format)

    The Howard card was justified.

    The Mathis card was NOT justified

    With that said, Stott is a buffoon.
     
  16. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity it is an automatic send off. It is not a penalty kick since Howard took him down outside the penalty area. I don't where you got that idea, but it is not in the laws of the game.

    His name is Kevin Stott not Scott.
     
  17. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Revolution fan, but from my observation:

    1. Howard: Harsh call. Couldn't use his fands so he had to make a play on the ball with his feet. The combined momentum made it look worse than it actually was. There is a decided abscence of intent, Lassiter adjusted his run in response to Howard's play, and the tackle is a result of circumstances. Howard should have received a caution tops.

    2. Mathis: Right call. Alegria was committed to the tackle and the ball well before Mathis got there, this after the Metro lost control off a bad touch.Alegria didn't go under Mathis as much as Mathis stepped over Alegria to get to the ball. Mathis didn't place his foot on his back to regain balance, there was clear intent, the back spikes on Mathis boot being at most two to three inches from the base of the neck.

    On right call, one wrong call.

    The Magpie
     
  18. longtime fan

    longtime fan New Member

    Sep 14, 2002
    Still think neither Mathis or Howard deserved red -- no one has even mentioned that the field was also very wet -- therefore slippery -- I think if Mathis had "stomped" intentionally he would have gotten away quickly -- not stopped to help Allegria up.

    Worse still is that the slide tackle from behind was never called.

    Bottom line -- Stott makes HS referees look brilliant.
     
  19. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Let's go over some red card highlights this season. Feel free to add some that I've missed:

    1) Diego Serna gets a red card early in the season after losing his cool.

    2) Mike Petke head-butts Jason Kries earlier in the year drawing a red card.

    3) Mamadou Diallo earns a red card for stepping on the keeper in mid-season.

    4) Mathis earns a red card vs DC on Saturday for using using Alegria's back as a door mat (the tough slide tackle is another issue).

    5) Howard takes down a forward with seconds left in the DC match drawing a red card.

    My conclusion? Metros may have the dumbest players in MLS.
     
  20. RushOnze

    RushOnze New Member

    May 16, 2001
    Colorado
    Finally someone sees the root of the problem
     
  21. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I thought Mathis' card looks a bit harsh. from the clip, I would have given him a yellow and a warning.
     
  22. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost New Member

    Aug 3, 1999
    joisy
    NO WAY you can't give Mathis that red. Sorry. Clint is an a$$.

    Timmy, I feel sorry. tried to play the ball, missed, took down Lassiter (which was probably his secondary attempt). if he had that to do over again he probably wouldn't because they were one down at the end of ET with a must-win next week. Mental laps. I think you also have to give the red.

    bottom line: fairly called considering they were playing in DC. Much better job that St. Silva the week before.
     
  23. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Um, why would you give a penalty kick on a foul outside the box?
     
  24. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    1. Technically, it doesn't even matter (but yes). The rule states that the red comes from denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity, which that clearly was (if you believe that Roy Lassiter is in fact capable of having a clear goal-scoring opportunity).

    2. Allegria may have deserved a booking.

    3. The rules don't allow for degrees ("mild stomp"). I wish it wasn't a red card, but it was completely justified.
     
  25. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Hammer. Meet head of nail.
     

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