Match 64 (Final) - Netherlands v Spain - Post-Match Thread [R]

I will make 3 points to just know where I am coming from on this issue:

1- Unlike the people you mention, I didn't think Germany was boring in 2002. They may not have been the 2nd best side in the tournament, but they were indeed a good team even then. Most people tried to undermine Germany performance in 2002 merely because Germany had sucked so badly in Euro2000 that they had come to conclusions about Germany they were not willing to abandon in the face evidence to the contrary.

2- I never felt Spain were not boring, even if their opponents did their best to deny them a lot of space. The Spaniards -- famed for their Tiki Taka -- showed excellent passing even in the tightest quarters, against sides that were quite often in full bunker mode against them. Only those with very dull minds who don't appreciate the skill required for a side to complete the kind and number of passes Spain completed -- not merely back and forth between their defender as some other sides -- but many in very tight quarters with players fully marked -- would fail to appreciate Spain's play or would rate them as boring. To be sure, I am not suggesting games involving Spain were the most exciting in the tournament, but despite Spain's opponent's doing their best to make those games boring, they were a far cry from the bore fests that Holland showed us particularly in the group stage. Nor was Spain ever a side to play the cynical, hack and foul, tactic that the Dutch showed in the knock out stage, in particular against Brazil and in the final.

3- In the case of Holland, they were utterly boring. I saw all their games and had a hard time keeping awake during Holland's group matches, starting with the complete bore fest that was Holland v Denmark. Robben's return to their team did liven up their attack a bit on his side, but shortly after Robben rejoined their squad, Holland had faced sides that it felt it could not play openly and decided instead to foul and hack to destroy the opponent's game.

I was once a huge fan of Holland. The first World Cup final that I saw was between Holland and Germany in 1974. I rooted for the Dutch then and rooted for them in many other tournaments. In 1998, for instance, they were my favorite team in the World Cup. Even when they were unjustly criticized in 1998 for their supposedly "boring" opener against Belgium, I saw in them a talented side that was intent on scoring goals even if the opponent was intent on never venturing in Holland's end of the field. But this Dutch team was an insult to everything that Dutch football had come to represent. It was a cynical side that ruined Holland's reputation in the eyes of football fans around the world. Those who are younger than I am, and who may not remember past Dutch sides, will end up associating Holland with a football that is almost in exact opposite of what Dutch football used to represent. Especially since I agree that even in the 2006 World Cup, the Dutch were already showing glimpses and then some of what they would show in 2010.

 

Blame Van Bommel. Coincidently, we played much nicer on EC after Van Basten and Van Bommel were through with eachother. Don't fear though, he's 33 and bound to retire someday soon.

 

If he keeps up present form at Bayern he could theoretically still play at Euro '12

 

If Bert van Marwijk stays on for Oranje I have no doubt that he will.

 

You certainly did. I watched all your games in Euro 2008 and rooted for the Dutch in the tournament. Except for a disappointing match against Russia, Holland were superb in Euro 2008. Which makes it even less comprehensible why they played the way they did in this tournament. If it really all has to do with Van Bommel being in your lineup, then certainly his retirement down the line would be good news for those who want to see the Dutch play the kind of football that made many around the world their fans.

I personally think that besides Van Bommel and his effect on how you play, your coach chose to play this way as well. And not having Van Der Sar in goal, you lose his distribution which was excellent and often helped jump start your offense.

 

That is too much...LMFAO!!!!!

 

Considering it was "I won't change the way I play" de Jong, yes.

You shouldn't call other people an idiot when it's clear as can be he's going for Xabi, it's a player for whom it isn't the first time he's gone in a play solely to injure somebody, and who feels no regret after doing so when you hear him talk to the press about it. In fact he always says you can expect him to do more of the same in the future.

 

Don't be an idiot. It's not clear at all as you can see by the discussion. Why don't you check it yourself?

Also, name me one time when he went into a challenge solely to injure someone.

You're talking bs.

 

At some point, you've got to start seeing a pattern. He broke our player's (Stuart Holden's) leg in a *friendly* this year. Intentional or not the man is a danger to others.

 

And what do you think were his intentions when he did that karate kick? He wanted to kick the ball Kung Fu style?

 

Maybe he was trying to intercept the ball?

 

I'm not denying he's dangerous. I'm just saying it isn't his intention to injure players. Just like he didn't mean to break Holdens leg even though the tackle was retarded.


Seriously, I advice you people to rewatch it from the moment Ramos kicks the ball forward. Not just a 1 second gif. Pay attention where he's looking at. He's looking at Villa, then Iniesta, Xavi, back to Villa, Back to Xavi, then the ball, and then there's an accident.

 

Lol, I'm not sure if you're serious (I hope not for your sake ) or if you're trolling.

YOU can check the vid at nos.nl, as you apparantly need to see it again. He goes into challenges solely to hurt players in many games, and successfully did so in the USA and Japan games.

He HIMSELF says when asked about his rough play that it's part of HIS game and that he won't change it no matter what, but some guy on the internet who wants to pretend de Jong makes these challenges by accident apparantly never watches the nabeschouwing of the games....or is it your bedtime when they interview the players after the game that you apparantly missed it?

 

I don't need to watch a crappy undetailed stream. I got the 1080p version right here on my pc. I watched it about 30 times and I'm 100% convinced he did not see Alonso. As convinced as Van der Gijp was when he said Pedro did not see Torres.

He didn't try to break Holdens leg and he didn't try to injure that japanese player. Why would he?

There's a difference between being a rough player and purposely trying to injure a player.

No need to be a child about it. Just rewatch it in good quality where you can actually see where De Jong is looking. Come back, and admit you were wrong. I won't hold a grudge.

 

I agree, the kick on Alonso was more clumsiness than intent

 

Just makes de Jong an idiot. I'm fine with that conclusion. Like I posted earlier, an approach that potentially dangerous should not be made without precaution. Obviously, he's foolish enough to risk a red card on a possible mistake by not truly looking right in front of himself.

*cough*

 

Did you just call de Jong an idiot? Just making sure if you (not me) called de Jong an idiot.

It's a wonder he can do anything on the field with his eyes closed all the time that he doesn't see when he 'accidently" goes for somebody's ankles, knees or chest.

 

Yes, it was directed at de Jong. Just saying that if he was willing to truly risk a silly, "clumsy" foul like that in a WC final that may have been a potential red card - he's an idiot.

 

Just checking.

 

I don't think it's his intention to injure players. I think he doesn't care one way or the other, which is almost as bad.

 

I think that's about as true as it gets in his case. In a previous article he explains his style of play is "old school" (or maybe it was van Bommel...) and that be basically didn't mind, attributing it to his adaptation to the physical nature of the Premier League. Fair enough.

 

You should take something for that cold you got

 

Yes the Dutch did get help from the refs on their way to the finals, and so did Spain. And in the finals the ref favored Spain. Enough yellows were given to the Dutch in the 1st half to set up a red card, it was just a matter of time. There is a reason why FIFA do not want to go to replays.

 

Quite the comedian. The Ref doesn't kick off the Dutch player who deserved a straight red which would have left the Dutch with 10 men in the 28th minute of the game and he favored Spain?

You people never cease to amaze me.

 

1st half yellows:

Robin VAN PERSIE (NED) 15'
Carles PUYOL (ESP) 16'
Mark VAN BOMMEL (NED) 22'
SERGIO RAMOS (ESP) 23'
Nigel DE JONG (NED) 28'

3 bookings for the Dutch (2 midfielders + one striker) vs. 2 bookings for Spanish defenders. That was a SUBTLE setting for a red card, IMHO, specially taking into consideration that Heitinga is not in the list