Match 62 (SF) - Germany v Spain - Post-Match Thread [R]

How is a team that reached two semifinals of two consecutive WCs and the final of the EC in between mediocre?

(I mean out of what 50+ European nations you should probably rate us #2 after Spain all in all. Certainly top 4.)

 

I see mediocre because you lack confidence (in the England game, if Lampard goal counted, different game), Argentina made tactical mistakes and lack of personnel, but still close to the end, and Spain figured them out. But mostly I say mediocre because with the right guidance and hard work, Germany could really emerge into one of the world favorites. I think you fooled people in this world cup because no one expected it, but it will be hard from now on. I hope you realize that I am a fan.

 

I know how can he call Germany mediocre? I think Germany can win it in 2014.

 

Well, my definition of mediocre is different then. I'd describe what you are saying as 'not at their full potential'. Comparing them to how other countries have done at the same time we are still at the top. Not very top, but we are there.

 

I would rate them as really promissing: young squad not responsible for past achievements (and being in the final rounds most of the times proves that) but really capable of dominating in the near future. I think Muller's absence in the semis was critical to the outcome of the match

 

Looked to me like Germany abandoned everything that got them there: No attack, no initiative, didn't take advantage of any of their strengths, left the middle completely and without a fight to the Spanish.
Weird.

 

They didn't abandon it...Spain just knew how to neutralize it!!

 

More than just weird. They had such great offensive games and then they play crap like this. Worst game from Germany in this WC. Very strange, why does Germany always show the worst Performance in the most important games!? I mean, i have no problem if they play good and loose, because the opponent was better or had more luck. But this game was just plain and simple BAD, no possession, no offence whatsoever, no effort to win this game, NO NOTHING! Besides the chance of Kroos i NEVER had the feeling we gona score. I mean WTF, how can you unlearn to play nice football within 3 days???

 

Mediocre may not be the right word. They do play a fast, young, counter-attacking game. The key it appears is to play a high pressing, possession football against them. It was a good lesson for Germany. I think they have learned that you can not sit back and wait for the counter-attack. You have to really press for the ball and then not waste it when you get it. One thing is for sure; they are leaving teams like England with poor skill on the ball behind. The fact that they did not resort to long ball running down is a credit to where they have reached since 2006.

 

Now let's see them neutralize "luck"

 

counterattacking??

only 4 goals out of 13 came about that way. They had about 55% possession in the first 3 games, and 48% in the next two.

First 30-40 mins in both knockout games saw then dominate possession and carve many chances. After halftime they softened it a bit, as happens in knockout games with a lead, and did a bit of everything which brought 2 counterattack goals against england, and 1 (out of 3) against argentina.

They are like an unrefined spain, but to label them counterattacking misses the point.

 

Against their touphest opposition, England and Spain, they essentially resorted around a counterattacking formation. For Argentina, Low figured out the holes in Maradona's formation (3 up front, 1 holding mid, slow defense) and personnel, and they tore them apart. I don't remember Germany playing a lot of possession in the opponent's half, at least in the tough games. For a German team to eventually master Spain's game would be awesome.

 

They did play all the possession in the first 40 mins against england, just before the england goal. Initially they set out to let England "have" the ball*, knowing they'd get it right back as they're not good at holding onto it. Then they tore right into them and it happened continuously so it basically looked like possession anyway. In the second half it wasn't like this, but england didn't have sustained possession. We were rattled, and they then counterattacked us, and we replied. It became more end to end nearing the third goal. After the 4th, Mario Gomez killed any chance of a 5th or 6th, but we dominated possession and passed it around ourselves most of the time.


Spain is a totally different story. They set out to keep the ball and take it to spain, but were overawed by Spain getting their foot on the ball, and playing their game* Then it looked like we intended to sit there and absorb, but as shown by how we didn't even press them properly, we were just overawed rather than wanting to play that way.

It's good to see a German team after about 15 years finally getting there though. Spain aside, the tournament was a big success with results and the style.


*Loew and Schweinsteiger said this in the post match press conferences.

 

You don't really know much about European football/soccer, do you? If Germany is a "mediocre European power" by having won the most titles of any European country (not to mention the most appearances in semi-finals & finals) ... then please tell me which European team is a real football power considering history.

 

I am talking about the young team this WC; not Germany over the years. I don't think they are top of Europe yet. They have tons of potential and play attractive, intelligent soccer.

They are starting to put a stamp on the way they play the game; hopefully will continue.

 

How I stated after the Ghana match, this German team is pretty inconsistent in performance. At the EC 2008, a good performance against Poland was followed by a bad & a mediocre one against Croatia & Austria ... then a very good one against Portugal in the 1/4 final by 2 pretty bad ones against Turkey & Spain. At this WC, a very bad game against Ghana followed after a good & a solid one against Australia & Serbia ... then after 2 very impressive performances against England & Argentina, we suddenly saw the ugly face again against Spain (like in the EC 2008 final).

One of the conclusions might be that the guys can't cope with too much praise and always need a kick in their asses resp. serious criticism in order to perform. )

I'd say the performance vs. Ghana was even worse (when knowing that Spain is way better than the African team).

In the 2002 final & 2006 semi-final, I saw a rather good performance. But you're right concerning the EC 2008 semi-final & final and the WC 2010 semi-final.

 

Ok, then I misunderstood you. But I still don't see why you call this German team "mediocre" after reaching the semis again.

Who claimed that? It's more than obvious that Spain is top since a couple of years, isn't it?

 

Heaven forbid if Germany don't put 4 goals past an opponent. If any other country did what Germany did prior to the Spain game they'd be heralded as the new heroes of football.

 

Maybe too harsh, but do you think this team is as good as their early results? I think they are a good side. They lost to Serbia. England was really bad. Argentina came in without thinking and preparation. This team came in with low expectations with many new players. Now they are going to be taken seriously and people will prepare for them. Also, expectations are higher now which will mean pressure. Brazil fell apart because of this. How they do going into Euro 2012 and WC'14 will be very interesting. Mediocre was meant to say I consider them not at the top, but I concede not a good choice.

When I think about it, you left behind Kuranyi. In my mind, if Italy and France sort out their sides and stop using dinosaur coaches, they are not worse than Germany. What I really like is that Germany is starting to play bright football. They have not established their style like the Italians and Spanish, but Germany is not just fitness and speed anymore. They show a lot of intelligence on the ball.

Germany's play did a lot to make this WC enjoyable. Danke.

 

Are you really that naive to believe that Germany managed to win so many titles and reach so many semi-finals & finals just because of fitness & speed? It's pretty amazing how little some people seem to know about German football (which produced many top players in the past)...

What a cheap excuse! You're always as good/bad as your opponent allows you. If I'd argue like you, I'd have to claim that Spain did only dominate & win because Germany "came in without preparation"...

 

yup. germany had one of the most spineless performances of a semi team that i can remember

 

I wonder if this perception is due to the fact that the German teams in the late 90s and the first half of the new millennium weren't all that exciting. Or maybe it is because so many people had wanted to hate them (such as the English, the Dutch, the French) that the propaganda spread all over the world.

Either way, that perception has always been stupid.

 

It's both and it's a dumb stereotype that simply won't go away no matter what Germany does. It's a shame but ignorant people like that will always be around, just gotta learn to ignore them.

 

this conversation would be better in a pub to avoid misunderstanding. I do appreciate German soccer. I have a T-shirt that says "Der Bomber" (Gerd of course), and I am familiar with Rummeniger, Der Kaisar, Lothar, Haman, and many others who I can see in my mind but forgot their name. I am not trashing German soccer history. I am talking about modern times; for me this is going back to 1994 WC.

The German game in that time was a direct, fast and efficient game that took advantage of size, fitness and speed. You did not "waste" your time on holding the ball looking for the pass as Spain does, or Brazil sometimes does, or Argentina when they play with Veron. What has wowed this WC has been the way Shweinsteiger, and Muller at times have played with such intelligence, even if it slows the game down. Of course you still do counterattacking very well. But the new component is a good addition to your game, but you are far from perfecting it as we saw in today's third place game. Spain (and Italy when Pirlo played well) have this side of the game down. That is why I think Germany will be very interesting if they develop this, but now I said "mediocre". So good luck. I will be watching more Bundesliga,and I am not trying to trash Germany.

 

As far as against Spain, they did not press the Spanish. You can't do that with them. Tactical error. IMHO, Low had the team fall back, wait for the ball, and was confident enough in his team to possess the ball wisely and make dangerous plays. They ended chasing those passes endlessly and were worn out. I am sure the Dutch will try to not give Spain's midfield time to make a pass. I don't think they will succeed but it will be a battle.