Match #61 - BRA : GER - RODRIGUEZ (MEX)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only saw the one replay during the game. It looked like it was an uncontested header on a cross. Enough to be considered control? Hmm...
     
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  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Quote I posted on The Netherlands forum (we track possible opponents) when it was 2-0 that this would likely be a demolition and had the potential to reach double digits. I've seen better defending from high school teams.
     
  3. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    One thing is certain...

    Team CONCACAF combined have been involved in both of the most unusual and memorable things in this world cup... The Suarez incident and the 7-1 incident.
     
  4. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Wasn't able to post earlier, here are my thoughts:

    1. Disappointing to see a FIFA AR miss an easy in/out decision on the goal line.

    2. Wasn't sure about the possible handling, didn't get a good look.

    3. Good decision by AR2 to keep the flag down on Germany's 5th. Also did well to spot Boateng amidst the Brazil players and keep the flag down at 53'.

    4. Gotta be a card for diving at 62' but I guess that's consistent with the rest of the tournament.

    5. Rodriguez did pretty good managing the emotions. I thought he could have shut down Muller's whining, especially after they were up 5-0. I didn't think Muller's kick towards the ball was dangerous but David Luiz is right -- you don't need to be doing that at that stage in the game. Anyway if Luiz makes contact that's a red.

    6. I thought the offside play at 67' was onside, but I'd like to hear more opinions. I thought it was control, just poor control.

    7. I was rooting for 0 mins 2nd half stoppage time. Has that ever been done before? Did Geiger even show the board? The TV graphic never showed the +1, 2, etc.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this was the biggest referee thing to come out of this match. Maybe the only one, really, since all the other potential flashpoints were consistent with how things were dealt with this tournament.

    I also think this was onside and that it was a play by the defender, rather than a save. It doesn't matter one bit in this game, but the ARs there have presumably been drilled with the newest interpretations and how FIFA wants things called. So I wonder if this was a missed call prompted by an itchy-trigger finger or if this is something FIFA actually wants.

    Was wondering this myself. The timing of the Brazilian goal made it impossible to give "0" or even really "1." I think Rodriguez just went on feel and ended it at the appropriate time. But it's entirely possible he put up a number and Geiger showed the board.
     
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  6. Marratacaja

    Marratacaja Member

    Mar 3, 2014
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    what just happened
    what the ******** just happened

    wtf was this game?

    good refereeing by chiquidracula nevertheless, not a very difficult game tho
     
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  7. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    I'd really like to know the USSF stance on this play. Did PRO ever cover plays from the World Cup? I checked the site but can't find anything. This would be a perfect play to break down.

    Considering the 1 minute in the first half I thought he would have blown some time in the 91st minute. But Brazil scored so he had to change his plans somewhat. Would anyone have complained if Rodriguez blew at 90:00? I think no.
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    No, they didn't break down any plays, which is really a shame. The Play of the Week from Brazil was a puff piece on Geiger and team. http://www.proreferees.com/news-play-of-the-week---2014---wk15.php

    I agree that it would be nice if IFAB or USSF did use this play and tell us more specifically what they want. Seems to me that until there is some clearer guidance, there is going to continue to be a wide sway of interpretation on where the line is supposed to be. (I remain of the belief that it didn't really change anything as to how USSF wants the "reset" of OS called, as I don't think "saves" ever met the possession and control standard -- but I'd love to hear something more clear and specific.)
     
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  9. MrRC

    MrRC Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    You guys are aware that goals are not one of the items listed in the LOTG as requiring allowance for time lost, right?

    It would not have been correct per the LOTG to blow right at 90:00 as he is required to add some time since there were substitutions during the 2nd half. Exactly how much time is at the discretion of the referee. So he could certainly have ended it at 90:15 if so desired.
     
  10. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    If I remember correctly German TV showed the one minute board held up by the fourth official. Rodriguez actually ended two seconds early.
     
  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, that's what I thought happened... ended a second or two early but was just being merciful, presumably.

    I thought the ref did well in what MUST have been a very difficult game for the officials. My only question mark was that I thought DL should have had a red at some point for multiple elbows.
     
  12. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 4, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Coupla things:

    - no, lost time due to goals is not one of the specific reasons, but how much less playing time was there as a result of the five first half goals? And whilst Brasil were probably more than happy to escape back to the dressing room, I'd suggest "any other reason" as just cause to add an extra minute or two.

    - the clock on the TV screen is merely advisory. I'm pretty sure it isn't linked in any way to the referees watch. Kinda like when {insert idiot commentator name here} spouts yet more nonsense about the LoTG or interpretations thereof, but is waaaaay off base.
     
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  13. Athazagoraphobia

    Jul 28, 2012
    Vancouver
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I know this is a referee critique thread but goddamn, the nitpicking on here is incredible. Some of you are complaining about ending the game 2 seconds early or not calling a particular foul at a certain minute...

    No referee is perfect and this guy got through and dealt with a game that could have turned into a very heated and difficult affair. Nothing was decided by a controversial decision and player complaints were fairly minimal considering the fact that there were some rash tackles or intents (David Luiz's 'almost' kick).

    Rodriguez did not give the Brazilians the opportunity to lash out and did fairly well in silencing Muller and Neuer's constant complaints. Blowout games like these especially involving the home side rarely end as peacefully as this one so I'd give major props for that.
     
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  14. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    On ref forums we don't nitpick to criticize, we do it help us decide how each small incident should be best handled. No, no one has ever officiated a perfect match, but the closer we can come to that standard the better. You will also find many opinions that Rodriguez handled this match quite well.
     
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  15. IARef96

    IARef96 Member

    Oct 19, 2010
    Clive, IA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Story of my life.
     
  16. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I look at the majority of the analysis here as generic - I mean not directed at anyone so thinking the real life examples are teaching/learning moments that if they could be created with no names or teams we would do that.

    Talking about things in the abstract help, but for me seeing a real life play and then discussing it helps me learn the most. It helps me to apply it far better than reading about it or seeing a static diagram of a play with red dots and blue dots on a field with arrows pointing etc.

    So yes, things get amazingly granular and sometimes too far like the 2 seconds thing as no one can see his actual watch but the discussion and "nitpicking" has helped me learn and improve and continues to do so. There are not many opportunities to have referees with the experience and advanced grades all in one place discussing the same play or game where we can all see the actual game or play like there is here so look at it in the generic sense and as critiques go - they tend to seem "negative" as that's where we learn - from mistakes or debatable calls.

    Calls that are nailed spot on or games (like this one) that are managed well are wonderful to watch and overall take away good stuff, but discussing every right call doesn't happen so the overall critique again seems to be negative and nitpicking - especially like in this one where there was really one "interesting" call (the offside) so yeah - finding more stuff to talk about is very nitpicky but it is assumed by omission that the game was handled extremely well.
     
  17. soccerman771

    soccerman771 Member

    Jul 16, 2011
    Dallas, Texas area
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't fee bad for him. He had the best seat in the house to watch history. I'm sure he enjoyed watching the skill and being a part of it.
     
  18. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not a ref myself, but I really enjoy reading all the "nitpicking" here. Sometimes the threads devolve into a bit of criticism if the ref makes major mistakes, but that's not really the point of them. The point is to discuss the game and the decisions and game management. I think these forums are great. I thought Rodriguez overall handled the match really well.
     
  19. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Oh, I did not complain, I just stated an observation.
     
  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not the scoring of the goal itself. It's the celebration and/or time wasting that can occur after a goal is scored. If the referee feels that time was lost between the scoring of a goal and the restart of play, he adds it back. Simple as that.
     
  21. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Can anyone point to a goal where the sides kicked off immediately afterwards? I mean, ANYWHERE?

    I've been watching football since the mid 60's and I've never seen it.
     
  22. seadondo

    seadondo Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Redondo Beach
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is the time between scoring a goal and the kickoff that occurs afterwards the same for every goal?
     
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Er.... I wouldn't have thought so... :cautious:

    I'm sorry, you've lost me... what's your point? Are you agreeing with me?
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think anyone is disagreeing with anyone else, except for the initial post on the subject.

    ManiacalClown's technical point is that you add time for the celebration and delay before the kickoff--not for the goal itself. Your point is that such delay happens all the time. Ergo, I believe everyone is in agreement that you can pretty much add time any time a goal gets scored. Obviously, discretion and the actual length of any excessive delay plays a role, which I believe is what seadondo is saying..
     
  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Yes, plenty of times, it's quite common.

    So a newbie then, eh?:D

    PH
     
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