Match #51 - NED : MEX - PROENCA (POR)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014: Refereeing' started by Alberto, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. BigManIntheMiddle

    Jan 10, 2013
    Inland Empire, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obstruction is punished by an IFK, and when in the box is an IFK, not a PK.
     
  2. sjt8184

    sjt8184 Member

    Feb 18, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    Obstruction is nothing. Impeding is an ifk.
     
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  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Correct, and it is nice to use the right word on a referee forum. But it also in all practical purposes irrelevant -- I don't see any difference in interpretation between Law XII's obstruction before the great re-write, and our current Law 12 interprtation of impeding.

    I also think impeding would be a very unlikely call on a CK: impeding generally implies a non-contact foul. What we see at CKs is a lot of contact and grabbing, so on those plays we are really talking about holding (with a little bit of pushing mixed in).
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  6. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Sorry, but I don't think I can
     
  7. BigManIntheMiddle

    Jan 10, 2013
    Inland Empire, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Grew up on Obstruction, sorry for the mix-up. the mind numbing of TV commentators for the past 2 weeks wants me to call KFTM "penalty kicks" as well. :( The wife is tired of me groaning and yelling at the TV.
     
  8. Marcz

    Marcz New Member

    Jun 25, 2006
    Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Alright let me clear up this one, just translated below from one of the latest articles about this in Dutch news;


    Arjen Robben has responded at a press conference this Monday about his 'admitting to diving'. De Dutch attacker refuses to take back his words, which have been wrongfully interpreted by the foreign media.

    Robben apologized after the win against Mexico in the 1/8th final for a dive. Foreign media figured he meant the moment where Robben got a penalty in extra time, but that's not the case.

    'I still fully stand behind what I've stated before, honesty is the best policy', Robben said. 'Too bad some foreign media wrongly interpreted that. In the first half there was a situation outside of the box, which had no influence on the game. That I apologized for.' as Robben clarified.
     
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  9. ElasticNorseman

    ElasticNorseman Member+

    Apr 16, 2004
    Natick, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Could be worse. Here in the Boston area, we had a local newscaster call them Penalty Shots.
     
  10. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The he dove twice. ;)
     
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  11. Marcz

    Marcz New Member

    Jun 25, 2006
    Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Oh he did. We all know he does fall easy at times. It's a flaw he has, which thank god isn't as bad as in his early days.
    Anyway, speaking of flaws, I do prefer the occasional dive over, say, biting people .. ;)
     
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  12. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a shame. Robben's actions bring the game to disrepute when he admitted he dove in the first half. FIFA should take retroactive action and call a hearing on this matter. Doesn't necessarily have to lead to a suspension, but an administrative yellow card for the simulation is something that could and should be issued if Robben was found guilty of simulation.
     
  14. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I suspect that is simply a can of worms that FIFA doesn't want to open. I believe Mass Ref noted previously that there have been exactly two players in the history of the WC to be sanctioned post-match for in-match behavior, both for VC. If they were to go down the road of reviwing alleged dives, I would think that would need to announce that pre-Cup as a warning, not begin ad hoc in the middle of the knock out round. And frankly, I don't think FIFA want to touch that kind of controversy that could come up repeatedly over the course of the cup and detract from the games themselves.
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except it can't, because no such thing exists in the eyes of FIFA: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/50/02/75/discoinhalte.pdf

    Article 14 (Reprimand) and/or Article 15 (Fine) could be invoked. But you can't award a caution that wasn't awarded during a match.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite what I said, but close. Only two VC incidents have been re-litigated via video review. Rivaldo was also sanctioned--with a fine--for his embellishment in WC02.

    I think those are the only three instances where video was used to punish something that went unpunished on the field.
     
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  17. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for sharing that information. I think before the next world cup FIFA should institute it to punish simulation. It is the scourge of the modern game and has gotten way too many fine referees sent home early.

    In Robben's case then call a hearing and if found guilty fine him so that it hurts him financially. $10,000 Swiss Francs is nothing.
     
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  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Interesting - thx. So there would be a precedent if they had chosen to fine Robben.
     
  19. soccermitchell

    Mar 2, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    He was just trying to fly, flapping his wings like a baby bird leaving the nest.

    But seriously, how does his right foot get dragged to the ground?
     
    That Cherokee repped this.
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some. But Rivaldo was fined because he clutched his face when the ball hit him in the knee (or thereabouts). The VC red card to his opponent for kicking the ball at him during a stoppage still, rightly, stood.

    There's never been video review of a foul called by a referee. No precedent there.
     
  21. That Cherokee

    That Cherokee Member

    Mar 11, 2014
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Be a good idea for the next world cup. FIFA needs to fix this epidemic.
     
  22. Elreynoaguila

    Elreynoaguila Member

    Jan 3, 2006
    #247 Elreynoaguila, Jul 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
    Look at this angle. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/06/mexico-netherlands-world-cup-herrera Look at how his head moves right after the contact. Even in the replay you put up, it shows that the head moves violently toward the left after the contact while the ball's rotation spins upward, indicating that it wasn't the ball that makes contact with the head.

    At the very least, this aggression is more deserving of a penalty than Marquez's "foul" against Robben. I saw the video that a poster posted as clear evidence of contact and I honestly don't see this clear contact in it. Compare it to this picture and you see that the clear contact, isn't so clear. [​IMG]

    I think that Holland had momentum and would have been favored to win in extra time anyway, but Mexican fans have plenty of room to complain about the ref. The resting time was unusually long and gave the Dutch team an advantage, Robben dove many times and should have been carded once. More importantly, why is it okay to have a UEFA referee in a match where there is a UEFA team? Would the Dutch fans have been content with having a CONCACAF referee arbitrating the game. Even if the referee had done a good job, this lends itself to speculation-- fairly or unmerited.
     
  23. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Rivaldo's three game ban was for simulation.
     
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  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City

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