Match 50 - NED : ENG - ZWAYER (GER)

Discussion in 'Euro 2024 - Referee' started by balu, Jul 8, 2024.

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What do you think of Zwayer's performance?

Poll closed Jul 11, 2024.
  1. 1 (worst)

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
  2. 2

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  6. 6

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
  7. 7

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  8. 8

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  9. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 10 (best)

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  1. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    My conclusion is based on the fact that the telecast didn't show anything egregious, and that VVD, in all the matches I've watched, has generally been very polite when protesting calls to refs.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without belaboring this too much, that's a hell of a conclusion. You're relying on the absence of evidence from the exact period when the behavior occurred and reputation. Seems more than a bit unfair to Zwayer.
     
    socal lurker repped this.
  3. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    All in the game.
     
  4. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saka, as well, immediately throws his arms up in the WTF? plaintive pose.
     
  5. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #80 yossarian, Jul 10, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2024
    C'mon. My Kane-loathing credentials are quite secure, but that hurts when the top of your foot kicks through the bottom of some dude's studs, and I doubt those Skechers have any better padding than most modern boots. :D
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What about Saka handling the ball multiple times? Before the ball reached Kane.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...tml?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

    I can already guess the answer here: not deliberate, a few slight brushes of the hand and so on. VAR should review the entire sequence.

    But in the past goals and penalties like this have been cancelled because of very slight, unintentional offensive brushes in the build-up. Did they change the rules suddenly?
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two years ago, but yes.
     
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  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Shouldn't have asked anyway. The pro-Englishness here has been know for a long time in the Netherlands forum section.

    (And no, the same is there not said about Spain or Italy).
     
  9. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm certain that this last part is sarcasm.

    Every time I've seen VVD protesting a call it's not been exactly polite. :)
     
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  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The right hand one is 100% not a handball offense. If it hit the the left hand you could make an argument but we haven't seen anything conclusive that it hit the left hand.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is way, way, way up there for claims that have actually stunned me on this forum. Like, there is so much going on in this sentence.

    Pro-Englishness, here?! I take it you have not, uh, perused our EPL threads.

    Known for a long time?

    And in the Netherlands forum? Like, this forum gets talked about there?

    I mean, yes, you and a couple others parachute in here every tournament with silly claims, axes to grind, and no interest in actually analyzing or learning, so I suppose that could rub you the wrong way. But to harbor actual resentment and discuss it elsewhere? Huh, I learned something today. It's a load of garbage, of course, but it's still something.
     
  13. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal

    Many a tear has to fall
    But it's....:geek:
     
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  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The exact same VAR team (with Dankert) reviewed the Openda (Belgium) vs Slovakia goal.

    Many saw it as unfortunate but the 'heartbeat meter' showed a touch with the hand.

    They never showed the heartbeat meter now on screen with Saka. Nor had Zwayer a look at this on the monitor.

    For the Germans it is not England that is a rival. It is Netherlands and Italy.
     
  15. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    1min 22sec in this compilation video:
    https://www.streambug.io/cv/8d7685
     
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  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Jonas Eriksson, who was FIFA listed not too long ago and has been involved in finals, has questions about the Saka handball.

    upload_2024-7-11_10-50-17.png

    https://www.svt.se/sport/fotboll/england-kvitterade-pa-straff-efter-var-beslut

    https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbla...on-sagar-englands-straff-hands-pa-bukayo-saka

    Jonas Eriksson, former pro Ref: The instructions to refeeres are clear, if the ball touches the hands and then you score afterwards; the goal should be canceled
    https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1e07vdz/svt_jonas_eriksson_former_pro_ref_the/

    He should know it then @Orange14 @feyenoordsoccerfan..... rather than all the Walton of ITV copies that you'll see around.
     
  17. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Yes, if the ball touches the hand of the goal scorer, it's considered a handball offence if the goal is scored "immediately".

    In this case, the person whose hand it may have touched did not score the goal. And it was not deemed an offence due to other circumstances (whether it didn't touch at all, or came off the player).

    Therefore... it was not considered a handball offence.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn’t bother. You won’t get anywhere, it seems.
     
  19. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Honestly, it wasn't for the poster.

    It was for anyone else that reads that and thinks that they have their own understanding of the law wrong. ;)
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't think this forum is pro any country or team. I've been posting here for a lot of years as a non-referee who is interested in understanding how decisions are made. I've even posted clips from Dutch League games that might be of interest to this group knowing that most, if not all of you, don't follow that league. I've received nice comments back on those. there was also the rather fractured conversation about the Chelsea-Ajax CL match where there were two RCs on the same play but we won't talk about that any more.;)

    Actually it does. I'm the MOD of that forum and always urge folks to come over here and see what actually referees think about various decisions!!! There will always be partisanship when supporters feel aggrieved at decisions that do not go their way. I think VAR has helped the game way more than it has harmed it. We have more certainty and the chances of phantom goals affecting the outcome of a match are close to nil.

    Subjectivity on official's decisions can never be 100% removed and everyone needs to recognize that. The rules of the game and interpretations are always subject to modification BUT a tournament such as this one can only be played with those rules and instructions that are made before the tournament! We all have to live with that (though the 'fingernail hand ball' did seem rather petty to me).

    Personally, I thank all of you for doing a good job explaining things to those of us who want to listen. (soapbox statement over and back to regular programming).
     
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  21. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    You know what the ironic thing is? This “formerly FIFA listed” referee is saying things that are objectively incorrect per the laws. If this guy called this as a handball yesterday, goes to VAR and still confirms his wrong decision, he is literally applying the rule incorrectly. But these fans would be overjoyed with he decision, because it favors their team. They would actively support a referee being incorrect and terrible, as long as it favors their team, rather than wanting a referee being correct even if it goes against their team.

    It’s quite a pathetic state of affairs
     
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