Match 5 - ESP : ITA - KASSAI (HUN)

Discussion in 'Euro 2012: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought it was a good half from Kassai. Probably didn't get every decision absolutely perfect, but has kept the attention of the game on the players and less on the refereeing.
     
  2. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    On the heels of my success brilliantly predicting that Balotelli would get the first yellow :)ROFLMAO:) , I am going further out on a limb....
    I'm gonna disagree with the spirit of this post. I think he has the players pretty well in his pocket. Their body language seems very good, repeated signs of mutual respect etc.
    With this group of players, we could easily be watching a RM-barca fiasco, but it's actually attractive soccer for a neutral. And I think the refereeing decisions are contributing to that.
     
  3. Englishref

    Englishref Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    London, England
    Fascinating first half, aided by Kassai letting a lot go, leading to a game played at a frantic pace.

    Italy applying their usual rough house tactics and largely getting away with it so far. They've made some wild challenges and the only YC so far has been for PI. Cassana should have been booked for his deliberate foul on the keeper, and De Rossi for his wild lunge that Kassai played a brilliant advantage for.

    If Balotelli stays on for much of the second half, he'll get sent off. I can see there being an ugly challenge in this as the Italians take it slightly too far and someone badly mistimes a tackle. Hope I'm proved wrong.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Card Balotelli was deserved. I feel Fabregas escaped a yellow when he illegally stopped a potential counter-attack. The tackle of Busquets, shown on the replay, was at the edge too.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I thought that Casillas stumbled by himself. De Rossi should have been carded indeed.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's entertaining, yes. And there seems to be respect. But I think the lid is barely on things at the moment. And, for all intents and purposes, I think Italy is getting away with their gameplan, even if it hasn't quite risen to the level of obvious tactical fouls. Plus, we saw three obvious cautionable offences ignored (advantage tackle, foul on Casillas and then Cesc). That can only go so far. Maybe Kassai gets lucky and there is smooth sailing in the second half, because neither team really needs a result in this first match. But we've faulted other referees for taking the very same "risks" that Kassai is taking here. We shouldn't be reserving criticism for only the times when things then subsequently go wrong.
     
  7. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure we should reserve our criticism. If it doesn't all go bad, then its wonderful refereeing. Doing the least necessary to achieve a favorable result is the mark of a good referee.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the part of the quote you excised has no bearing? If Italy is breaking up attacks through fouling and three obvious cautionable offences get ignored, how do those facts escape the analysis of the referee's performance?
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazing. That has to be a caution.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And now four obvious cautionable offences ignored.

    Sorry, there reaches a point where not doing your job is worth criticism... despite the on-field results. Kassai gets away with this and I just don't understand how or why. No other referee does--not even Webb.
     
  11. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    Yep.
    The die will be cast when a goal is scored....
     
  12. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But he realizes that the players have a respect for each other and are working things out without his need to step in. However, I agree that tactical fouling and "missed" cautions are worthy of mention. The problem with labeling a caution as "missed" is that it may be a caution in one game and just a foul in another.

    However, that blatant hold had to be a caution...

    And goal Italy!
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hint of offside there... but looks to be a good call.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I called it on live.

    That proves it. Give me a flag in MLS. :D
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For some types of fouls, you're absolutely right. But these four were 100% yellow cards in any match (well, maybe 3 of the 4... I'd be willing to concede one could be ignored on some occasions). And you implicitly admit that by pointing out the most recent one "had to be" a caution.
     
  16. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was quick. Easily onside. Wonderful.
     
  17. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps its just Kassai's lucky day?

    Hands out a yellow to Bonucci for a rough challenge.

    The cards will start coming now. Let's see if the Spanish get a revenge tackle soon.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here we go. And because the standards have been so high, that can only be a yellow and not a red. At least he's showing a level of consistency. But that's the type of challenge that could take the lid of of things.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Some fouls were really obvious, such as the shirt-pulling by Arbeloa and also several Italian trippings.
     
  20. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you feel that that challenge NEEDED to be a red? I agree that it COULD have taken the lid off of things, but the fact that it didn't proves to me that Kassai's game management is working. He seems to be able to keep things under control very well without his cards.
     
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  21. usaref

    usaref Member

    Jan 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good PI yellow there.
     
  22. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    I have the strange sense that EVERYONE treated this game like a friendly.
     
    usaref repped this.
  23. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kassai made it work for him. Certainly still the favorite for the final (IMHO).

    Tactical fouls are a pet peeve of mine which is why I was kinda aggressive with the criticism.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think my feelings are pretty well-known here, but I just want to summarize them now that the match is over. I thought, from the last Olympics onward, that Kassai was a rising star. Thought he was great in the group stage at the WC and in the US-Ghana match. I think he's been downhill since the WC semifinal. It's like he stepped onto this massive stage, did a game with no cards (nearly certain no one had ever done a WC semi without a card since they were invented) and has completely changed his style. He's reluctant to card, period. And teams know that now. And they take advantage.

    Look at the final 20 minutes of this match. How many cautions did he have? Three, I think. And there were at least three--if not four--cautionable offences that occurred previously in the match that were worse than all of them. There was no consistency in application of misconduct by the end of the match, because he was forced into decisions that, earlier, he opted not to take. If he had just booked the obvious stuff early, the match would have opened up even more and things would have gone amazingly well. But by having a concerted effort not to card, coupled with two teams that recognized it (it seems Italy might have even realized it before the match), you get a pattern of play of stopping attacks. The match was entertaining because there were two quality sides on the field--but that doesn't excuse a referee being derelict in his responsibilities. If he had booked players who committed clear reckless and tactical fouls early, the match might have gone differently.

    Kassai is obviously a good referee. He has good relations with the players. But the top teams know him now and they've figured this out about him. I fear what will happen if Kassai is on a big QF or SF where both teams need the result. He's going to get a big knockout match based on reputation and the fact that Hungary isn't in the tournament--and that is going to be very interesting to watch.
     
  25. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    Is it possible that match 1 has put the fear of god into any ref about giving an early yellow?
    The commentators sure echoed the idea enough: "at this stage in the game, that's a yellow".

    I still can't get over how completely accepting Spain were of Italy's tactics. It's not like they didn't understand what was going on. Yet, no hard feelings at all...???
     

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