Match 45: GHA : URU - SIEBERT (GER)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by balu, Nov 30, 2022.

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What do you think of Siebert's performance?

Poll closed Dec 3, 2022.
  1. 1 (worst)

    15.0%
  2. 2

    5.0%
  3. 3

    35.0%
  4. 4

    15.0%
  5. 5

    20.0%
  6. 6

    10.0%
  7. 7

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 8

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 10 (best)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. Those suspensions would apply to 2026 World Cup qualifiers.
     
  2. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    The referee god lahoz. Would have issued red cards while forcibly shaking their hands
     
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  3. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    He was gutless in the last game too when he let a substitute throw a ball at a downed player on the field.
     
  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I mean I'm all for throwing the book, but you can't award point deductions based on on-field or even off-field misbehavior by players. If Portugal couldn't get a point deduction for some of their antics in the early 2000s, I don't think you can give Uruguay point deductions.

    In a 48 team World Cup where 6 out of 10 (7th team goes to playoff) CONEMBOL teams directly qualify, it's practically impossible now for Uruguay to not qualify. They would have to finish behind Boliva, Venezuela, and a combination either Peru, Ecuador or Paraguay.

    Why are we looking for FIFA to do something here and bail out a cowardly referee. No one is asking for 5 red cards being shown. Show one or two and get out of there.

    We can't ask governing bodies to fight our battles for us on the pitch.
     
  5. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    *wouldn't
     
  6. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Referees should have one of those keychain canisters of pepper spray in their back pocket. Imagine sievert pulls that out and sprays those guys in the face.
     
  7. Echoing

    Echoing Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    "whoops, that wasn't the vanishing spray"
     
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  8. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Lots of these Uruguayan players won't be coming back anyways to serve those suspensions!
    Not really managing it but I can imagine like Gassama holding his ground and showing some reds instead of running away, lol. It's a shame Chiquidracula is retired!
    This is the most important message for me. Siebert is at the World Cup, he has a chance to set the example for the whole world and finally start making a show for the whole world to see that this sort of behavior isn't normal or acceptable.

    Siebert did what he had to do for his own good. But man, inaction here indirectly makes the game less safe for the millions of grassroots referees the world over. I can understand why Siebert did nothing, but it would have been great for the game if he stood his ground, and it would have shown great courage and moral fiber.
     
  9. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Moreover, turned and walked away while his AR was in trouble. That Uruguayan GK was pretty aggressive, and persistent. No card though (from what I saw) because Siebert bailed.
     
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  10. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I said I thought the pre-tournament instruction must have been to not overturn the VAR until I saw otherwise, which I've now seen. So I guess it wasn't the instruction but that this was the one he chose to overturn is mind-boggling to me because of what he gave as a penalty earlier in the game. Much better would have been that the VAR never sent it down, once he did then the referee really has to give it and because he didn't we see the outcome. There's enough there to give a penalty even on a bad day, but if you really don't believe it you should still consider the context of what you've done previously. End of the day, however, Uruguay has no excuse for their post match Behavior and the referee should have been more strict if for no other reason than to support himself and himself and his fellow referees.
     
  11. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Suárez even has a nickname for him.
     
  12. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Agree. But, then, what excuses Oliver permitting that behavior in his match? Because it was while the game was still going, or, because it was early in the game?

    Some here were applauding Oliver's restraint, and I could even understand that, so I guess context is key, but a clear dive of the ref is a clear shove. I don't think we should be losing players off the hook when they get physical with us [the refs].
     
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  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Muslera was going to yell at the referee, but he saw him pull out the yellow card to show it to Cavani, so he turned his attention to the AR.
     
  14. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Nothing. If you look on the thread you'll see that opinion there, from me. Especially since the game is still going on and it would have consequence, that has to be a second yellow card, or more preferably a straight red card, in my opinion. The lack of one spoils what was otherwise a really good performance from Oliver.

    In fact, when I put these two incidents together, I think it's absolutely fair to say that the committee is not doing enough to make sure that referees punish players who assault them! This is nothing that should be managed around. When we talk about how the global culture, all the way down to the grassroots level, encourages abuse of referees, this is our smoking gun. This sort of stuff is a big part of why there is that culture. Send these clowns off. The lack of emphasis on punishing this behavior is disgraceful, from the referee committee (I don't give a **** that it would "make the referee the star of the show").
     
  15. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    You know what would be an unorthodox but totally effing crazy but interesting change to the laws? Let the ARs give cards for musconduct unrelated to fouls... A little more authority and a little more teamwork. It would prevent ARs from being targeted, BUT the ref wouldn't have the same degree of overall management and control. Anyway, just a fleeting thought.
     
    Ismitje, duality72, AremRed and 2 others repped this.
  16. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't been watching the post-game show, and I had the sound off during the Uruguay-Ghana game, so maybe this has been covered already, but...It appears to me, if I have my mathematics right, that if Elfath had not given the penalty in the Portugal-Ghana game, the final standings of Group H would have ended up exactly the game as they did end up, Portugal first, South Korea second, Uruguay third and Ghana fourth. All four would have had four points. On the first tiebreaker, goal difference, Portugal would be plus-1, South Korea would be 0 , Uruguay would be 0 and Ghana would be minus-1. So Portugal would finish first and South Korea and Uruguay would go to the second tiebreaker who determine which got second place. The second tiebreaker is goals scored. South Korea scored 4, Uruguay scored 2.
     
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  17. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    ... That game was in rd 1. Would tactics have changed if the situations were different? If so, then... It seems a stretch to blame today's outcomes on Elfath.
     
  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look, I completely agree with you that Siebert needed to show some red cards. I absolutely would have done so - and have done so in circumstances far less dire than that. But FIFA HAS to do something here. You're right - points deductions probably don't matter much. But there has to be a response from FIFA here. Even if they say "the referee should have sent more players off and we acknowledge that", they simply cannot allow what Uruguay did to go unpunished. In an age where we are seeing referee strikes, zero-tolerance policies, etc. , the sport's governing body must execute some type of real punishment here.

    I'm fine if FIFA throws Siebert under the bus to make the larger point in this case. We just can't move onto the afternoon games and say "well, that one's done."
     
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  19. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you haven't seen it...

    https://dubz.co/v/g5pa60
     
  20. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    3. Showed courage sometimes. Was not courageous in others. Not very smart with the VAR overturn (even if courageous). Frantic sometimes ( showing cards to players backs). Sloppy finish.
     
  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, I have at least two reds there (Cavani being one of them) and a referee assault on the backup goalkeeper along with his OFFINABUS red. That's at a minimum in those 35 seconds.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sending off the backup keeper there before the push is embarrassing. Walking away after the push might actually be the wise move--the AR did look to note who it was, so I presume that will be documented.

    But, again, this is a backup keeper and it's after his tournament is over. Effing toss him!

    Go back, as someone else pointed out, to how Siebert handled the technical area incident in his first match. Manufactured handshake for a clear red card offence. This stuff is so frustrating.
     
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  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The red should come before the assault. If that's not entering the field of play to confront a match official, what is?
     
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  24. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    What was this?
     
  25. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014

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