Match 45: GHA : URU - SIEBERT (GER)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by balu, Nov 30, 2022.

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What do you think of Siebert's performance?

Poll closed Dec 3, 2022.
  1. 1 (worst)

    15.0%
  2. 2

    5.0%
  3. 3

    35.0%
  4. 4

    15.0%
  5. 5

    20.0%
  6. 6

    10.0%
  7. 7

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 8

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 10 (best)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Was that Suarez yellow for DR? Dissent? Either way, I'm happy to see it and implore the other referees at this world cup to do the same, which we haven't seen in other games.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think this is right. Nothing really proved a foul. If Siebert believes or wants to argue that any touch negates the foul, then that's what he's going to come up with. I just think that the touch doesn't overcome the foul that had already occurred at that point.
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR might not have seen the touch before Seibert got there. At that point if the ref says no foul due to ball contact and you start an OFR due to no ball contact but then discover that was wrong, is it really a C&OE.

    Yeah I lean PK on it, but it's not a nailed on one with that touch.
     
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He did. And I'm not so sure it's "he got the ball, so there's no foul." I think it's more of "he got the ball, so it's not a clear and obvious foul." Small nuance. But it makes the difference to the extent if Siebert HAD called this a penalty, I don't think he would have used this evidence to overturn it.

    Also the kind of nuance that I don't think FIFA will appreciate in this case/tournament.
     
    jeffmefun and code1390 repped this.
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like DR, which irritates me. He let's Suarez mouth off to him all game and then books him for kicking the ball away? C'mon, man. Have some respect for yourself. Now Suarez CAN mouth off to you the rest of the way with zero repercussions. And he knows it.
     
  6. BlueNosedRef

    BlueNosedRef Member

    Sep 5, 2011
    I could be opening myself up to a flurry of fire here, and this isn't to say it isn't VC/SFP anyway, but I'm not convinced this has the malice in it claimed by others because
    1. The boot raise is very obvious, not the kind of thing you do if you're attempting to stamp someone covertly with malicious aforethought and escape the notice of the VAR and the dozens of cameras at his disposal
    2. The Ghanaian is about to ostensibly knock the ball away with a swinging left leg but only manages to inadvertently trap it between his legs, providing a legitimate reason you might raise your foot in the air in the moment
     
  7. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    If done "excessively," according to Law 12.
     
  8. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I was wrong when I said there was no touch on the ball, I watched it again and there is a very, very, very tiny (almost imperceptible) touch after all of the contact has already occurred. Still, the best angle to see anything from was the camera we were shown from roughly the left corner flag. It's negligent to not show Siebert that one.
     
    duality72 repped this.
  9. BlueNosedRef

    BlueNosedRef Member

    Sep 5, 2011
    The touch of the ball in this instance was an important factor given that the decision was always between careless and no foul, and I'm happy it was the latter.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See, I think #1 is in line with the European line of thinking. "It's too obvious!" "Why would he do that anyway, without hiding it better?" And I think it's because players know they get the benefit of the doubt. Note he grazes him some with his boot, while being sure to get him. He doesn't stick his studs forcefully into the abdomen. Players who do this sort of thing... A) do it in the heat of the moment as an opportunity presents itself, so it's not entirely rational and B) make sure the contact is slightly less than 100% forceful so that there can be some doubt in the officials' mind (and that doubt is CRUCIAL at the VAR level, which they know).
     
    JasonMa and duality72 repped this.
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if any touch gets Siebert to "not clearly wrong," that is not going to matter. And I say that as someone who regularly thinks VARs outside MLS are not good at picking the right image(s).
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dr Joe gets his deserved criticism, but Clatts hasn't exactly lit it up either.
     
  13. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Your mistake is assuming soccer refs book players for mouthing off.
     
  14. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Dr. Joe may be an idiot, but to his credit I know that when he speaks I'm getting an attempt to explain things fairly and objectively to viewers, not someone's opinionated agenda like we get from Clatts.
     
    Lucky Wilbury repped this.
  15. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Hoo boy, Uruguay needs a goal. This dynamic just changed SIGNIFICANTLY.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    86' was pretty ugly but seemed yellow was correct.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Imagine if the referee had the first rejected OFR of this entire tournament in this match? Oh, wait...
     
    StarTime and AremRed repped this.
  18. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Announcer has been straight trash this game. Called an Uruguay goal when it hits side netting. And can’t even update us what Uruguay need to advance.
     
  19. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Even if you book Suarez for dissent he’s not gonna stop. And he will still kick the ball away and do other marginal stuff knowing you can’t send him off easily.
     
    duality72 repped this.
  20. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Nothing here 90'+3', to be honest it's a foul by Cavani. He comes across the defender and trips him.
     
    duality72 and gaolin repped this.
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to be Siebert post-match if this doesn't end 3-0.
     
  22. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Cavani clever to put his leg across to get fouled. No way.
     
  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Need the Referee Admin golf cart at the ready!
     
    jarbitro repped this.
  24. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    If only referees could give players second yellow cards for dissent or DR!
     
    RefIADad and AremRed repped this.
  25. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    If only they would!
     
    duality72 repped this.

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