Match 44: ENG : GER - MAKKELIE (NED)

Discussion in 'Euro 2020: Refereeing' started by code1390, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Match #44
    England : Germany
    Tuesday, 29 June 2021
    17:00 local time (12:00 EDT)
    London

    Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
    AR1: Hessel Steegstra (NED)
    AR2: Jan de Vries (NED)
    Fourth Official: Srdjan Jovanović (SRB)

    Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel (NED)
    AVAR 1: Kevin Blom (NED)
    AVAR 2: Iñigo Prieto (ESP)
    AVAR 3: Alejandro Hernández (ESP)
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Borderline DOGSO in the 7th minute.
     
    Thegreatwar and rh89 repped this.
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good decision and card from Makkelie at 8'.
     
  4. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    Leaves ball to create contact- dunno if that shouldn’t go the other way.
     
  5. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    I was thinking the exact opposite. Attacker stepped in front of defender....no?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was grabbing him the whole way to slow him down.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand what you're seeing, but no one on the field expects that call to go the other way. It would be bizarre.

    The German attacker lets himself go because of the hold and creates the leg contact you're focusing on. But in a situation where defender is chasing attacker from behind and grabs his shirt/arm to slow him... no, that call cannot go the other way. A referee is giving up all credibility with that sort of decision--it's not even a risk-reward situation, it's just a sacrifice. Everyone expects that call to be going in--and it should. No reason to be a hero and see something that no one else saw.
     
    Thegreatwar and chwmy repped this.
  8. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    No way Shaw was 10 yards from ball on the ensuing free kick.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not really hearing Makkelie's whistle well on TV.
     
  10. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That free kick on the card was strange. There were 2 defenders off the side and in front of the wall and they were maybe 6 yards from the spot of the kick. The Germans treated it as indirect and kicked it straight into one of those close players.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tackle/foul at 18' is a great example of the SPA foul that is no longer a yellow card because advantage was applied.

    It's the right decision, but I'll repeat again how much I hate it. Because when the same tackle/foul is given as a yellow card against England later in the match, the protests/dissent will be understandable. It puts the referee in a tough spot. In theory I understand why IFAB has made the misconduct situation, but in practice I don't think it works well. It creates a situation where deliberate misconduct can be excused but accidental misconduct gets punished, purely due to other circumstances.
     
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  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably not technically SPA there, but he gave a yellow for an English pull so a German one feels okay.
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would have been interesting had Germany scored around 32 minutes. Felt like a maybe not-accidental handball to start the attack.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree. And I would suggest that it's partially a product of the no-card at 18'.

    You have an early SPA card against England at 8' and then a blatant SPA against Germany that has to be ignored at 18'.

    Borderline SPA at 25' against Germany? Any referee is going to feel the pressure to give that, even if it was probably on the wrong side of the border.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    42' tackle seemed quite cautionable. More reckless than SPA.
     
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's probably about the same darker orange that saw a Welsh player sent off.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to know what "speed" is in Clattenburg's dictionary.

    I can get behind "no brutality" on that, of course "brutality" isn't the standard in question but why should that get in the way of entertaining commentary?

    I don't think that needed to be red via VAR, which is why it wasn't. But boy was that close. It's not that far off the Ampuda red card. I'd say that the ball being nearby and the contact not being totally flush keep it on the yellow side of the ledger.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taking it to MLS for a moment, Elfath had a yellow last week in the NYCFC match that was similar, though the contact was into the instep and sort of up the calf. VAR sent it down and he kept it at yellow, seemingly under the justification that the contact wasn't flush--studs-to-leg--so wasn't a clear red. But these sort of tackles are right on the border.
     
  20. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW full credit to Ian Darke for using Yellow+ on air!
     
  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do we really need to have that as a consideration with Clattenburg?

    When he was first on NBC, I thought he was pretty good. Not sure why he has regressed so much.
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope we don't need to suffer through 50 more minutes of this.
     
  23. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    Just be happy it’s without Twellman.
     
  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure some German fans will mention it, but almost no one will be talking about the yellow not being a red. If the red was given, it would have been what everyone was talking about. Not saying anything for or against, but there's a reason Rosetti is probably gonna be just fine with the yellow.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, in sum here? Nothing amazing, nothing terrible. Relatively steady with some quibbles around misconduct but nothing major (if you presume the 45' yellow always has to be yellow in that situation--or at least that UEFA wants yellow--which I do). Does that sound right?

    Enough to say Makkelie did a credible job but nothing that screams "wow, he needs another match," which is what my reaction was to Cakir yesterday.

    For some reason, I find it remarkable that a match like this didn't seem to have even one credible or controversial penalty shout.
     

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