Match 41: CRO : BEL - TAYLOR (ENG)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by balu, Nov 29, 2022.

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What do you think of Taylor's performance?

Poll closed Dec 2, 2022.
  1. 1 (worst)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5

    14.3%
  6. 6

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 7

    14.3%
  8. 8

    57.1%
  9. 9

    14.3%
  10. 10 (best)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Match #41
    Croatia : Belgium
    Thursday, 1 December 2022
    18:00 local time (10:00 EST)
    Al Rayyan


    Referee: Anthony TAYLOR (ENG)

    AR1: Gary Beswick (ENG)
    AR2: Adam Nunn (ENG)
    Fourth Official: Istvan Kovacs (ROU)
    Fifth Official: Mihai Artene (ROU)
    VAR: Marco Fritz (GER)
    AVAR (1): Tomasz Kwiatkowski (POL)
    Offside AVAR (2): Rafael Foltyn (GER)
    Support AVAR (3): Benoit Millot (FRA)
    Stand-by Offside AVAR (4): Jan Seidel (GER)
     
  2. elonpuckhog

    elonpuckhog Member

    Dec 29, 2009
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Almost got'em with the kickoff play.
     
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  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks a lot like the offside from France/Tunisia there...
     
  5. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Ooof pen. 14’

    i think it’s an easy penalty decision. Interesting if he is going to the monitor for Offside or for the challenge.

    landon Donovan just said it . @code1390 spot on mate.

    Dr. Joe… confused aF like he has never been on camera
     
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  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like they were both offside.
     
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  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was going to be challenging an opponent for the guy on was a yard off after the defender headed it. If the other attacker who physically challenged the defender was offside, then it's easy.

    Although the SOAT replay is incredible. Closest decision of the tournament.
     
  8. elonpuckhog

    elonpuckhog Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    Donovan (who sounds like Twellman) "I don't understand why players want to argue after the ref goes to the monitor". (C'mon Landon, if you were out there you'd be arguing).

    Once they show the SAOT and it is close, Donovan: "C'mon let it go" (argues with tech from the booth)
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remarkable.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    How is this, at all, what anyone wants from the sport?
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    With my added MS Paint skills. I guess 1px of the Croatian shoulder is offside. I can't tell where the system decided the arm line for the Croatian.
     
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  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Not certain that SOAT helped
    doesn’t that show that the Belgium player’s arm band is beyond the Croatian?
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more I look at it, I don't understand how it's offside. All that is past the vertical line is the grey arm of the model.
     
  14. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Holy Crow.

    I mean, how is that not obvious to the AR? Send him home NOW! /s
     
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  15. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    I looked at this for a minute or two and I think it is showing that the end of the Croatian player's shoulder is ahead of the end of the Belgian player's shoulder because the Croatian player is leaning forwards.
     
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  16. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    You'd prefer objectively wrong calls?
    What's offside enough for you...one inch, six inches, a foot?
     
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  17. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Member+

    May 25, 2006
    But I’m not convinced there’s a difference there.
     
  18. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    This was my thought. It would be invaluable to get the VAR audio here...
     
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  19. joebarnin

    joebarnin Member

    May 3, 2003
    Santa Cruz, CA
    I don’t mind VAR, but this is overkill. How does the software judge where the shoulder ends and the arm begins? At some point the call is so close that it’s within the margin of error, and the call on the field should stand. I think that this is one of those cases.
     
    Barc@4ever and Sport Billy repped this.
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Silly question but I'll throw it out there to see where we land on an answer...

    The three touches on the ball before the penalty were ALL from Belgium. All were clear. And they were from three different players.

    At what point does something like that reset the APP? APP is more art than science, I understand, and this maybe feels like it has to be the APP. But how many chances does the defense get to possess and clear before it's just, you know, not the same APP anymore?

    EDIT to put this bluntly... Belgium had three chances to clear their lines and instead kicked their opponent in the penalty area, but they fade a penalty because of a millimeter offside decision? I don't have a good answer here, but the current setup definitely is missing the forest for the trees in situations like this.
     
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  21. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Great. Again, what's the margin of error that you'd be happy with?
     
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  22. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    But the objective computer is convinced.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  23. Dom. FC

    Dom. FC Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Central US
    I've heard "clear and obvious" mentioned a few times?
     
  24. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Clear and obvious only applies to subjective decisions.
    It's not needed when the call is completely objective. A millimeter offside is offside.
     
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  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've had this overall fight too regularly for me to jump in with any passion, but I would point out that the playable part of the arm is almost an inherently subjective data point. The graphic in the Laws shows the sleeve, but if anyone is claiming that's somehow objective or scientific, I'd love to hear that explanation.
     
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