Why? Do you need to know beforehand? What if the 'wrong' player comes up? Do you tell him to go back and send the right player? Do you let him take the kick and change the number? If the former, that's asking for trouble. If the latter then you've just defeated the point of the list. I know some coaches that will send people based on the score of the shootout at the tine. If one team gives you a list but the other doesn't, then one team is 'locked in' whereas the other has flexibility. This comes straight from an assessment I was at where the CR did this. It's not necessary or desired by those in charge.
It's in the rules of competition from UEFA for this competition (Article 16, IIRC). The players do NOT call it on the first toss. The referee simply tells them that it's heads, this end; tails, that end. Then they call it to decide who goes first. Yeah, but you have no right to ask. That's an internal matter for the team and they do NOT have to adhere to any order they may decide prior to the kicks beginning.
From the rules of competition here: http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf
I do it because it is convenient and make things easier for all involved. It also speeds up the process. As I said in my previous post, I do NOT mandate it. I also have never had anyone go against it. I also haven't had anyone go "out of order". If they do, then I just write the number of the player down, or cross them off the list to insure no duplicity. The only thing I'm anal about is after every set of kicks I double-check the conversions with my AR to insure we have the same count. If we're off, we're off together. The list serves another purpose. I have to write down the list of all the players on the field. Why not attempt to get them in order? It makes the teams be organized and helps the crew keep track of players on the field. Are all assessments / assessors equal?
I'm going to second what DudsBro said about KFTM. Forcing the teams to make a list is not desired by the higher ups within USSF, and I have seen it backfire on a referee who tried to force the issue with a coach who knew that the list was not a requirement.
I agree and I would never force them. What is it about reading comprehension with people? I ask and have never been denied. If they refuse, fine and no skin off my back. I'm still recording the numbers of the players on the field.
Interesting discussion regarding penalty shootouts. Over here, you'd be expected by assessors, managers and players to get the names/numbers of the first 5 penalty takers before the kicks begin. As it's always done like that, you never have any problems getting them from the teams. The senior AR will then manage the centre circle and send the players up in the order stated.
That is possible. However in this instance I believe it had to do with players not wanting to give up a breakaway goal.
That's always the immediate motive in many situations, yes. But Coentrao, Veloso, Ramos, Arbeloa and Xabi Alonso all took cards that would have ruled them out of the Final in other competitions. Would they have committed the same misconduct they did today if the threat of suspension hung over them? It's possible, as players have certainly been suspended from big matches before (this year's UCL Final is a great example). But when you have 9 cards and 5 of the guys in question would have missed the Final if this was the World Cup, you can't help but wonder.
I've got to say that was a horrible game. It put me to sleep. It was totally devoid of any drama or skill. How two teams with such an abundance of talent could play such a clunker is beyond understanding. All things considered I felt Cakir did a very good job in the match. The cards in the second half were legit, gesturing for a card, tactical fouls and sloppy tackling.
I saw controlled frustration from two teams that basically took away the things the other likes to do. It was sooooo boring. I like the new set up. Better to have the stars play in the final than be out due to yellow card accumulation.
ref was crap every time the Portuguese centre back Alves went up to head the ball he gave a foul, when he clearly won the ball
But ref, he got the ball! If anything, he gave Alves too much rope. He could easily have carded him for PI 3 fouls earlier. And, if THAT is your complete condemnation, gotta say he scored pretty high on your assessment sheet. Thanks for playing.
Watching spain play usually puts me to sleep, they are a great team, but the endless passing while patiently waiting for an attack puts me to sleep. The "worst" I watched was 2010 WC semi against Germany, in the first half Spain played keep away while Germany sat back and waited. Great team who is one of the best in the world and what they do takes great skill, but boring to watch.
I simply disagree with this, but it's my own personal preference. This is the first step in turning this into entertainment about the stars to fill the seats than it is about fair play. If you rack up enough cards, you shouldn't play. Resetting cards in knockout stages makes the game not only more physical, but makes it flow less. Just look at yesterday for example. With the cards accumulated, would Joao Pereira be playing differently knowing that another card has him sit out of the final? What about Sergio Ramos? He would be out of the final. If players don't want to be suspended in the final, don't make offenses that warrant cautions...
At the same time, just because a player has more matches to play, doesn't mean he should be at a greater risk for suspension. So the raw count of cards is an equally bad/unfair idea. A player getting two yellows over 5 or 6 matches is not the same as one getting two yellows over 2 or 3 matches.
Also agreed. I was actually thinking yesterday that they should introduce a 1 card per 3 games allowance. You play 4 games you can have 2 yellows. Equally if you suddenly get two yellows in 2 games after 4 games without a card you get to stay on.
I'm not smart enough to suggest an answer to this dilemma. But this always struck me as the elephant in the living room. If the necessary encouragement to free-flowing soccer in THIS game is a penalty paid in a FUTURE game, then: 1) finals will always suck (cuz there are no future games) 2) something is seriously wrong with the rules. Each game should encourage "good soccer". If it doesn't, then there is a problem. Period. Trying to fix today's game by messing with tomorrow's roster is a cop out. I am as confident in my position as I am certain that I don't have a solution to suggest. btw, though I understand the arguement put forward, I didn't think this game degenerated into a hackfest. I just thought it was played close to the vest, not willing to make a mistake. That would have been true even if there were 0 tactical fouls. So, I don't think it's a particularly good example. I'll bet Germany-Italy is a better one!
Can't disagree with that either. I just think that resetting at a certain stage is poor form. Count cards over 2 or 3 consecutive games.
I sometimes wonder if FIFA and UEFA ever imagined there would be so much misconduct in their showcase events. It does make sense to limit the period for yellow card accumilation and have the cards reset after not less than three matches. Everyone then starts fresh for the knock out phase.
It's always been and should be about entertainment value. A good example is this years Champions League Final. Chelsea had 4-5 players out on yellow card accumulation. It takes away from the quality of the match. Look I am strongly in favor of players playing fairly as anyone, but the previous system was broken. There were too many matches taking place that a player could end up sitting out knock out matches because of yellow card accumulation. Yesterday was a very tactical match. Truly a chess match played between two teams that were going to thwart the attack of the opponent. The cards with the exception of the caution for demanding or demonstrating for a yellow card were mostly tactical with a few hard challenges resulting in cautions thrown into the mix. We will have a better idea of whether this will result in more rash challenges to thwart attacks in the match between Italy and Germany, teams with contrasting styles. If both teams resort to a hackfest to stifle attacking sosccer, then modify the reset game. As an example, conclusion of group play for eliminating all cards.