Match 16: Spain v. Switzerland :: Post Match Thread [R]

JoseEmidio · Jun 17, 2010

Hard to to gloat but Spain have the talent to go through. The Chile game will be fascinating. Maybe Spain will finish second and it becomes Spain vs Brazil after all either way the second round featuring Portugal/Brazil/IC and Spain/Chile/Swiss will be maybe the best second round ties.

soccernutter · Jun 17, 2010

Tori Maximus said: ↑

Accept for the fact that Switzerland won.

How about we all just give credit where it's do? Spain couldn't get past the Swiss defense, but the Swiss got past Spain's, and beat them. It may not have been pretty, but by God they did it.
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Yes, Switzerland won, but you really can't say it was due to out playing Spain. The goal was a bit lucky (and the lucky usually win). Spain dominated for almost the entire match, yet did not score. If you want to say that they did not get past the Switzerland defense, then you would be mistaken. They penetrated the box, but often were too fancy and tried to do too much. I could cite all the stats about possession, shots, passes, etc., but none of that really matters when, in the end, Spain lost.

Yes, Spain lost.

And G said: ↑

@Everyone who thinks Spain "just got unlucky" or "outplayed the Swiss" or similar crap...
Spain lost because Switzerland outplayed them. And they didn't even need the ball for that, because Spain were kind (stupid) enough to pass the ball from one side to the other and back without posing much of a threat inbetween.
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Dude, there is a difference between tactics and playing. Spain played better, but Switzerland's tactics were better. The Spanish players couldn't handle the Swiss tactics.

And luck is made. Spain was not unlucky, cause they didn't make much to be lucky about. Switzerland was lucky (if anybody really thinks that was a clean goal...), and they made their luck in what little opportunity they had.

Tori Maximus · Jun 17, 2010

soccernutter said: ↑

Yes, Switzerland won, but you really can't say it was due to out playing Spain. The goal was a bit lucky (and the lucky usually win). Spain dominated for almost the entire match, yet did not score. If you want to say that they did not get past the Switzerland defense, then you would be mistaken. They penetrated the box, but often were too fancy and tried to do too much. I could cite all the stats about possession, shots, passes, etc., but none of that really matters when, in the end, Spain lost.

Yes, Spain lost.

Dude, there is a difference between tactics and playing. Spain played better, but Switzerland's tactics were better. The Spanish players couldn't handle the Swiss tactics.
And luck is made. Spain was not unlucky, cause they didn't make much to be lucky about. Switzerland was lucky (if anybody really thinks that was a clean goal...), and they made their luck in what little opportunity they had.
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All I said is Switzerland won, and I don't come up with these esoteric ideas about why.

Spain didn't score. Switzerland did.

The result was clear enough. Switzerland scored when they had a small window to do so.

About the stats you're hanging this on, I had a quick look. Spain had almost all the possession, 25..ish shots at the goal, created far more chances, had more set pieces, and world class talent. But what happened? They choked, because they couldn't handle Switzerland's tactics, and this suggests to you that Spain played better than the Swiss?

soccernutter · Jun 17, 2010

Tori Maximus said: ↑

All I said is Switzerland won, and I don't come up with these esoteric ideas about why.
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You highlighted my comment saying "Spain lost" and said "Switzerland won" indicating that Switzerland played better. I disagree and gave the reasons.

Spain didn't score. Switzerland did.

The result was clear enough. Switzerland scored when they had a small window to do so.
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For all that was Spain, they were for naught. Switzerland were.

About the stats you're hanging this on, I had a quick look. Spain had almost all the possession, 25..ish shots at the goal, created far more chances, had more set pieces, and world class talent. But what happened? They choked, because they couldn't handle Switzerland's tactics, and this suggests to you that Spain played better than the Swiss?
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I agree Spain choked. They should have easily won. But the Swiss were tactically better. There was little creativity and flair. It was not a kick and run style, but a classic counter-attack match in which they got a lucky bounce that resulted in a goal. It was not an Italy style counter-attack in which there is plenty of skill. It was a rigid and effective counter-attack tactic

When one team dominates all the stats the way Spain did, it clearly says they played better (with the ball - in other words, they played to win). But they didn't score, and all the shoulds, woulds, coulds and ifs don't matter.

Tori Maximus · Jun 17, 2010

soccernutter said: ↑

You highlighted my comment saying "Spain lost" and said "Switzerland won" indicating that Switzerland played better. I disagree and gave the reasons.

For all that was Spain, they were for naught. Switzerland were.

I agree Spain choked. They should have easily won. But the Swiss were tactically better. There was little creativity and flair. It was not a kick and run style, but a classic counter-attack match in which they got a lucky bounce that resulted in a goal. It was not an Italy style counter-attack in which there is plenty of skill. It was a rigid and effective counter-attack tactic

When one team dominates all the stats the way Spain did, it clearly says they played better (with the ball - in other words, they played to win). But they didn't score, and all the shoulds, woulds, coulds and ifs don't matter.
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There's a reason why at the end of the day they don't include stats here when they recap games on the nightly news. Stats don't mean a damn thing. Looking good and kicking the ball around more doesn't score points. Nobody gives a damn about the stats; only the results.

But I'll bite. Yes, Spain played much better and dominated the ever loving shit out of Switzerland and played football sent to them by the Angels themselves. So what? They lost.

M.O.T · Jun 18, 2010

How was this a boring game? I was a neutral and this game was exciting. I imagine for those who had an interest this game was an emotional roller coaster. I mean, what's an interesting game to people, 30 yard screamers after a magnificent run that left the whole defense in the dust? If so, just stick with youtube clips....

And G · Jun 18, 2010

soccernutter said: ↑

Dude, there is a difference between tactics and playing.
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The "difference" between tactics and playing is that tactics are a part of playing. This is not kicking the ball around on a backyard, this is football.

soccernutter said: ↑

Switzerland was lucky (if anybody really thinks that was a clean goal...)
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Dude, if anyone was lucky there, it was Spain. If the ball had somehow gone wide or if it had been offside, there would have definitely been a PK awarded and Webb would have had no choice but to caution Casillas and Pique, one of those most likely being a red. Hell, if you're familiar with refereeing, you'll see that Webb could as well have sent off both of them. Switzerland was lucky? Switzerland totally got screwed there, it should have been 11 vs 10 from that point on.

soccernutter said: ↑

Spain dominated for almost the entire match, yet did not score
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You seem to be confusing domination with possession.
Possession is when a team controls the ball.
Domination is when a team dictates the pace of the game, forces their opponents into errors, creates scoring opportunities.
Even without the ball Switzerland dominated more than Spain did with the ball.

soccernutter · Jun 18, 2010

And G said: ↑

Dude, if anyone was lucky there, it was Spain. If the ball had somehow gone wide or if it had been offside, there would have definitely been a PK awarded and Webb would have had no choice but to caution Casillas and Pique, one of those most likely being a red. Hell, if you're familiar with refereeing, you'll see that Webb could as well have sent off both of them. Switzerland was lucky? Switzerland totally got screwed there, it should have been 11 vs 10 from that point on.
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I don't have the luxury of being able to go back and look at the play, but I don't recall seeing it that way.

You seem to be confusing domination with possession.
Possession is when a team controls the ball.
Domination is when a team dictates the pace of the game, forces their opponents into errors, creates scoring opportunities.
Even without the ball Switzerland dominated more than Spain did with the ball.
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Fair enough, but so say that Switzerland dominated because they created scoring opportunities is unfair. They had so few opportunities that I don't think domination could be used.

German_Fan · Jun 19, 2010

Heil Hitzfeld!!!!!
He is the greatest coach in the world

Suyuntuy · Jun 19, 2010

Der General Hitzfeld. But it wasn't just his tactics: the Swiss were disciplined enough to implement them, smart enough to try alternatives, and not so rigid to get confused by small mistakes.

North Korea was disciplined and smart, but they were too mentally rigid to deal with Maicon/Elano on the right.

chuckkf · Jun 19, 2010

I love that aparently the Spanish media is trying to blame Casillas girlfriend for the loss. I do not think it was Casillas fault Spain did not score

Juanele · Jun 19, 2010

chuckkf said: ↑

I love that aparently the Spanish media is trying to blame Casillas girlfriend for the loss. I do not think it was Casillas fault Spain did not score
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They aren't blaming her for the loss. It's typical English media mis translating what was actually said so they could have some headlines.

Crisstti · Jun 19, 2010

Et3rnal L1ght said: ↑

Switzerland's playing is far from the quality of Inter's and take a look at Brazil's goals against N.Korea. And yes, I'm a Barca fan

Anyway, if teams keep playing with bonkers like this, this WC is gonna be the most boring ever
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I'm BORED of teams playing deffensively. It seems after Inter's win at the CL eveyone decided that is the way to play. They are ruining football.

I want all defensive teams to lose. All of them.