Match 14 - GER : HUN - MAKKELIE (NED)

Discussion in 'Euro 2024 - Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 19, 2024.

  1. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    #26 Orangebarista, Jun 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
    Well. After all, a match lasts 90+ minutes and not just 5.

    Of course Mikael and Massref are repping your comment. Makkelie did not have a top performance, you can read that in my nuanced comment. But I get the feeling that you guys really enjoy "slaughtering" referees. In a taunting tone. And always focus on the most negative parts. You seem to forget that they are human beings, who receive a lot of criticism from fans. It’s up to you so-called referee experts to provide a nuanced comment, instead of butchering the referee. UEFA Referee observers also don’t do that.

    Mikael even starts his comments with 'ha ha'. How childish are you? You are typing that at home from behind a keyboard, while you are a grassroots referee yourself. I don’t get it. Sometimes you are too cosy with referees, sometimes you behave like they stole your lunch money.

    Makkelie was already put under pressure by the German press before the match. Nagelsmann even received questions about him at the press conference. Makkelie assigned to a sensitive German team, despite the German-Dutch rivalry, at their home soil, eager to win the EURO. That’s already a tough job. But just when you think it can't get any worse, Ceferin sits in the stands next to his Hungarians friends. Yikes.

    After the 1-0 was valid, it led to a number of poor minutes. Agree. But instead of mentioning it, and almost laugh about it, can we also imagine why? It starts with protests. Then the replay ("the contact") of the 1-0 was shown on a large screen and the audience responded to that with a lot of noise. Makkelie gets all that. He probably saw himself already on a plane home and lost his focus.

    Then, during halftime, they watch the key moments in the dressing room and have to pull themselves together. Honestly it’s a miracle that they’ve managed the second half relatively well! But you will never express that appreciation. You always keep focusing on the negative.

    And yes, I think Makkelie is done. Not because of "5 poor minutes", but because of the complains from Hungary. I feel like, he is too often over-complicating things for himself, placing himself in the middle of the attention.

    On the other hand, I still have the opinion it was discutabel and not ‘clear and obvious’. Would it be a penalty kick if Gündogan makes the contact in his own box? I don’t think so…
     
  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Honestly, it's more directed at you and your weird analysis/commentary more than anything and also partially at Makkelie as well (at least for me).

    I can't even quite describe what your style is. It's half Makkelie fanboy/analysis and the other half is some weird pyscho analysis of refereeing. I can't even put into words what the second half is. You're talking about Cefrin in the stands, sensitive German team, Hungarian friends, etc.

    I mean Guida made just as bad if not a worse mistake and he wasn't ripped by this board as Makkelie because the leader of his fan club didn't write a book deflecting the decision/performance.

    Weren't you the one said that you weren't going to watch the Euros because you didn't like the way the assigning and refereeing was trending? Yet here you are.

    As for Makkelie.

    I can't speak for everyone else, but in all my years of watching European soccer I can't think of an elite European referee that just rubbed me the wrong way more than Makkelie.

    All these guys are arrogant and half huge egos. You need to be that way to get that far to an extent. But Makkelie somehow just throws it in your face more than anyone else I can think of.

    I mean for christ sake, what other referee has a picture of himself in his yellow and red cards? Plus, his general demeanor on the pitch and the fact that he really hasn't been that good in the big moments.

    Not to mention the rumors of throwing his ARs under the bus.

    And then add your incessant commentary about him (will Makkelie get this game or that, etc.) leads to a combination of us attacking you and him.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  3. Orangebarista

    Orangebarista Member

    Feb 22, 2024
    Netherlands
    #28 Orangebarista, Jun 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2024
    Thanks. I respect your opinion. It’s not always easy to find the right words in English. What I tried to underline is, I didn’t like Makkelie being appointed to GER-HUN. Already before the game I read German comments: ein Holländer, das kann nicht gut gehen. It’s says something about the sentiment and imo they could’ve found a more sensible game for him.

    With regard to Ceferin; the UEFA president does not appear very ‘neutral’ in my book. If I recall, he was also watching a PSG game along with their president El Khalaifi. At GER-HUN accompanied by a Hungarian on both sides. In my opinion, better to avoid that… It can come across as biased.

    Yes. The games are played 15:00, 18:00 and 21:00 and this doesn’t fit well into my schedule with my work and sport. I’ve watched two games entirely. My national team and GER-HUN. And obviously monitored the appointments. For the rest, just referee highlights/KMI’s. Thanks for asking.

    Agree. Did not like that as well.

    Thanks. I guess, it’s better if I don’t comment on his games anymore. I have once attended a lecture by him, that is probably why my opinion can be a bit colored. For the record, I have also criticized Makkelie regularly. Also here.

    Maybe I get you wrong, but are you trying to say that a comment at this forum should be short and sweet? :)
    Personally I prefer the long and more deep analyses when it comes up to a referee performance. It’s more credible and nuanced than ‘missed YC here, missed YC there, very poor referee’, etc.
    In general I struggle a bit with the negative and not too emphatic tone of voice of some users here. Maybe this isn’t the right place for me. Thanks for your feedback.
     
  4. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I have nothing to say about the individual users here, and my opinion is worthless, but Makkelie absolutely rubs me the wrong way too, even though a lot of it is pedantic minor things. The pictures of himself on the cards. Storing the cards in his wallet so every time he issues one or notes a goal, you see both the yellow and red card come out. How he calls a foul then runs over standing at the spot pointing direction for 5 seconds, and has even done it on penalty kicks, running to the spot and pointing 45 degrees in the air towards goal. He does things that I would expect from a first year grassroots ref. The greaser Italian mobster slicked back hairstyle. He looks like such a prick

    I know it’s ironic as a guy who really liked Mateu Lahoz to be complaining about a ref having a big ego and other minor things, but what are you gonna do. I don’t like the guy. Every time I see him on a match I watch I groan
     
  5. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Well, who doesn't? :D Especially if you're sitting in an armchair and behind a keyboard. And maybe you wanted to "get there" as a referee but never made it. It can be a lot of fun to criticize these top guys and be supported by like-minded. And heck, it can also be a lot of fun to read such comments (unless, of course, you happen to be sympathetic to the specific referees!)

    Edina Alves Batista does!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe we should just shut down this whole professional sports experiment then. Because if people can't criticize unless they "got there," we've just let the air out of a multi-trillion dollar global industry.

    The initial comment here is transparently false. The idea that it's only about slaughtering or criticizing referees on this board is belied by a couple decades of history. If anything, the posters here have been accused of too often reflexively defending referees.

    Maybe the needle has moved some due to the hyper-focus on VAR. Or maybe--speaking personally here for sure--the limited ability to watch this tournament has shone more of the focus on potentially incorrect situations. But--also speaking personally--I engage in analysis because I love the art of refereeing. That has often meant praising top performances just as much as it has meant criticizing poor ones.

    Also, as has been said there are fine margins here. Obviously these guys are the elite of the elite. A "bad" performance is still relative. But when part of the analysis is figuring out who might do QF, SF and Final matches... identifying the bad is probably more important than praising the good, because it's mostly about people playing themselves out of contention for assignments rather than affirmatively playing themselves into latter stages.
     
    JasonMa and RedStar91 repped this.
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh also, Makkelie will definitely get another match. I don’t think there’s much question about that and when it happens, it won’t suddenly meant the 22-26’ passage was good.
     
  8. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As someone tasked with essentially being the Assessor of the Referee forum, I concur with this.
     
    JasonMa repped this.

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