Match 11 - DEN : POR - THOMSON (SCO)

MassachusettsRef · Jun 10, 2012

Wednesday, 13 June - Lviv - 12:00 EST
Denmark : Portugal
Referee: Craig THOMSON (SCO)
Assistant referee: Alasdair Ross (SCO) , Derek Rose (SCO)
Additional assistant referee: William Collum (SCO) , Euan Norris (SCO)
Fourth official: Viktor Shvetsov (UKR)
Reserve official: Oleksandr Voytyuk (UKR)
UEFA Delegate: Jozef Kliment (SVK)
UEFA Referee observer: Jaap Uilenberg (NED)

This thread is for all pre-, play-by-play, and post-match discussion of the referee and other officials on the match. Only news and analysis or other facts/information related to the referees and the officiating should be posted here. This is not a team or rivalry thread and will be heavily moderated to ensure it remains that way. Please read the stickied thread at the top of this forum if you have further questions. Thank you.

MassachusettsRef · Jun 13, 2012

Thomson has risen to be Scotland's first truly top-level referee since Hugh Dallas and the first to attend a major tournament since Dallas in 2002. That being said, I think it's fair to say he probably came into this tournament ranked 12th out of the twelve referees. He's had a very difficult time since last November, first with the France-Bosnia playoff, then with a real controversy in the Twente v Schalke Europa League match (gave PK and red for a dive that was out of the area anyway) and recently made a mess of the Scottish Cup Final, once again giving a penalty for a foul that was clearly outside the area (don't for a second think that Ronaldo & co. won't have noticed this habit!). In between, however, he was still appointed to the EL semifinal, so UEFA has reinforced its confidence in him going into this tournament.

I've seen him be very good in years past, but I don't think it's harsh to say he's been having a bad run of things in the last six months. Hopefully he turns it around today. His bigger matches in recent competition:

UCL: Bayer Leverkusen v Barcelona (R16), CSKA v Inter, Shakhtar v Porto, Bayer Leverkusen v Valencia
EL: Atletico Madrid v Valencia (SF), Twente v Schalke (R16)
EURO 2012 Qualifiers: Israel v Greece, France v Bosnia, Italy v Serbia (abandoned), Armenia v Russia

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

well, now. that's a semi-ceremonial restart. (of course it was very low risk)

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

wow, he made that decision late

MrPerfectNot · Jun 13, 2012

"A fairly agricultural challenge" - LOVE THAT!

Now, clearly not playing the ball - caution? Yea or nay? Cast your vote.

My vote: No.

MassachusettsRef · Jun 13, 2012

I go "no" on the agricultural challenge... you give that and Ronaldo will be looking for them all day.

But "yes" on Agger's untidy tackle just after.

Now then, wasn't that a goal kick? Corner given and Portugal scores.

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

MrPerfectNot said: ↑

"A fairly agricultural challenge" - LOVE THAT!

Now, clearly not playing the ball - caution? Yea or nay? Cast your vote.

My vote: No.
Click to expand...

On it's face, my vote is yc.
but he's really managing the personalities well so far, IMHO. And his "NO" was no doubt part of that. props to him

MrPerfectNot · Jun 13, 2012

Agreed re the Agger foul - should have gone caution.

Didn't see the replay to judge corner/goal kick preceding the goal.

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

MassachusettsRef said: ↑

But "yes" on Agger's untidy tackle just after.
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Yep

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

LOL. I thought the commentator was about to say it didn't meet all 4 Ds

MrPerfectNot · Jun 13, 2012

oldreferee said: ↑

LOL. I thought the commentator was about to say it didn't meet all 4 Ds
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Well, sounds like he's aware of them!

Like the way Thomson managed the slide into the keeper a moment ago - clear slip by the attacking player, no harm done, seems he just talked his way through it - nice.

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

was that a foul? something up high?

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

that was BEAUTIFUL

MrPerfectNot · Jun 13, 2012

oldreferee said: ↑

was that a foul? something up high?
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What situation are you asking about? Sorry, not following.

The goal was quite nice.

footyref1 · Jun 13, 2012

oldreferee said: ↑

was that a foul? something up high?
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The tackle on Ronaldo? If that's the one you're referencing I think replay showed it was a foul, tripped him. If another I don't seem to remember.

Nice goal, well worked.

dsnipes1 · Jun 13, 2012

MassachusettsRef said: ↑

Now then, wasn't that a goal kick? Corner given and Portugal scores.
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every replay i saw looked like it came off postiga and out for a goal kick, the danes didn't protest too much though...

footyref1 · Jun 13, 2012

Wow, good goal for the Danes. I think what threw that play off for the Portuguese was Ronaldo actually playing defense around his own box. That's never happened for them before.

oldreferee · Jun 13, 2012

footyref1 said: ↑

The tackle on Ronaldo? If that's the one you're referencing I think replay showed it was a foul, tripped him. If another I don't seem to remember.

Nice goal, well worked.
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I didn't see the trip.
But the third goal is pretty too.
This game is really fun

Sport Billy · Jun 13, 2012

oldreferee said: ↑

LOL. I thought the commentator was about to say it didn't meet all 4 Ds
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I think he's wrong.
I think it should have been a DOGSO.
That ball gets through and it is off to the races.

footyref1 · Jun 13, 2012

I think the still frame makes the distance between the attacker and defender look a lot bigger than it is in reality. The defender closest to the bottom was already racing in at an angle. Given the distance from goal still, the fact that the attacker still hadn't touched the ball (maybe on the bounce it will slow down and therefore slow the attacker), and the speed at which the defender is racing over I think it's a yellow and no more.

MassachusettsRef · Jun 13, 2012

footyref1 said: ↑

I think the still frame makes the distance between the attacker and defender look a lot bigger than it is in reality.
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You can actually use the center circle as a frame of reference, since the defender at the bottom of the screen is parallel with the attacker (or thereabouts). It looks like they are about 16 or 17 yards apart. If anything, I think the camera angle makes them look closer than that.

I think there was a strong case for DOGSO. The doubt, for me, is whether or not the ball was going to hit the Dane in the back or touch him at all. The issue of him having clean control and being able to bear down on goal has some doubt. The counterbalancing thought is that it was a deliberate attempt to stop a breakaway by the defender--he knows what he's doing and why. It's close for me. I wouldn't have batted an eye if Thomson went red, but I also wouldn't categorize this as a miss.

elonpuckhog · Jun 13, 2012

To me, its not DOGSO - I'm not sure all of the Ds are there. I mean, it is right near midfield. I understand these are some of the best players in the world, but I think the Distance to Goal is not met. In addition, difference to ball may not have been met either.

RedStar91 · Jun 13, 2012

Can't believe no one thought the Kjaer shoulder barge on Ronaldo wasn't a caution. I get if it's further away from goal. Ronaldo has Kjaer toast and is heading to the goal line and he makes no attempt to play the ball. Caution for tactical all day. That is the type of foul that's been let go all tournament without a caution.

SimpleGame6 · Jun 13, 2012

Gonna call DOGSO in the first half of a EURO 2012 game, it should be REALLY obvious I feel.

MassachusettsRef · Jun 13, 2012

elonpuckhog said: ↑

To me, its not DOGSO - I'm not sure all of the Ds are there. I mean, it is right near midfield. I understand these are some of the best players in the world, but I think the Distance to Goal is not met. In addition, difference to ball may not have been met either.
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Leaving aside the stipulation that we're not working strictly with the 4 Ds for this match, I actually think the distance issue is the smallest worry. We're past the center circle, so we're actually only about 40 yards out where the handling occurs. But the ball is traveling with pace and everyone is already sprinting. By the time the ball is even touched (unless it accidentally hits the Dane, as I suggested was possible), we're probably only 25-30 yards out. Distance, given the totality of events, is not a problem here.

As for the 4 Ds issue, I can go dig it up again, but UEFA has 6 criteria that essentially mirror the Laws and the 4 Ds, but they only need to "be considered." In the end, UEFA has its referees ask the very simple question of whether or not, after considering the criteria (and in spite of the possibility of some being doubtful) a goal or obvious goal-scoring opportunity was very likely. Quite simply, Thomson didn't think so here. And it's a reasonable decision. If anyone is searching for "truth" here, I don't think they are going to find it.